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  1. #11
    IssalrocRIP is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    I thought the same when I read the final chapters. Actually, I kinda thought it was implied when Matsuda told what happened to Mikami that Near did the same thing to Light...

  2. #12
    coolerimmortal is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Aha! Finally, supporters!

    *feels all warm and fuzzy*

  3. #13
    IssalrocRIP is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Well, I thought everyone thought the same when they read the chapters. Maybe we are both a little too paranoid? O_.

  4. #14
    Hayashi Rato is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    maybe its this? this might sound crazy, but maybe ryuk killed light? thats crazy, yah, but lets say Near killed light, then how did light die 40 seconds within ryuk writing his name in the death note, and ryuk knew from the beginning how light was gonna die rite?, if he knew that he wouldnt let Near take away his kill, cuz Ryuk said he was gonna kill him.....ryuk musta killed light,

  5. #15
    coolerimmortal is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by IssalrocRIP View Post
    Well, I thought everyone thought the same when they read the chapters. Maybe we are both a little too paranoid? O_.
    Hmm...Perhaps. That, or the others want to accept everything at face value.

  6. #16
    IssalrocRIP is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayashi Rato View Post
    maybe its this? this might sound crazy, but maybe ryuk killed light? thats crazy, yah, but lets say Near killed light, then how did light die 40 seconds within ryuk writing his name in the death note, and ryuk knew from the beginning how light was gonna die rite?, if he knew that he wouldnt let Near take away his kill, cuz Ryuk said he was gonna kill him.....ryuk musta killed light,
    Ryuk is not psychic, he's pretty dumb actually. And he did kill Light, the same way the policewoman killed that filthy film-only whore at the end of the first movie. Except Near probably was pretty vague when writing Light's death.

    Hmm...Perhaps. That, or the others want to accept everything at face value.
    Better for us.
    Last edited by IssalrocRIP; 12-30-2006 at 07:17 PM.

  7. #17
    scriver058 is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolerimmortal View Post
    This was a bit more significant than that.
    It's not possible for Light to mess up? He isn't a god, after all.



    The win meant nothing unless the people around him thought he'd brought Kira to justice. Killing Light and making him confess would have been an easy way to do it
    Not only thought, proved. For your theory to work, those last few chapters would've have to had gone differently. The way you state it, and the fact that you say that Near is a brat, contradicts Near's actions at the end. Light didn't just come in and confess. Not that your theory is wrong, but the events at the warehouse seem, I don't know, not exactly the work of a DN entirely?


    But remember, Near didn't have L's sense of justice. He was certain Light was Kira, anyways. I'm sure he had it in him to kill Light, and if he was wrong, he could simply say, "Oh shit, there's another Kira".
    Nope. That doesn't jibe at all. He could obviously kill Light, yes, but to say that he didn't have L's sense of justice feels wrong. Maybe not his exact sense of justice, but L is the kid's idol. Near wanted Light brought to justice; Light being dead meant nothing unless he was first proven conclusively that he was Kira. Furthermore, Near's explanations and actions in the last few chapters are too precise and on the ball to be just a DN byproduct. He was proving to all in the room that Light was Kira.



    But Near wouldn't do that. He wouldn't risk losing face like that, and he knew that if he killed Mikami without telling the others, they'd never trust him again and he'd be finished.
    But Matsuda's theory was just that, a theory. And if Near did write Mikami's name into the DN, im betting he did not tell any of his men.



    Near, once again, lacked L's sense of justice. In his mind, he had all the proof he needed.
    Not the case at all. Near states in chapter 104 that he and Mello have finally done what L could not, present the true Kira to evidence. If he really thought he had all the proof he needed, why say that? Because no matter what he thought about who was Kira, he knew he needed validation, i.e. proof. Sure, he was like 99% sure that Light was Kira, but his suspicions meant nothing without validation. He used Mikami to get that, to prove to everyone that Light was indeed Kira. Using the DN to kill a person he was all but sure was Kira wouldn't have been enough. No, Near doesn't quite have the sense of justice that L had, but they think in the same way; in logic and facts. Things need to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Near wants to win more than L, perhaps, but no way is a guy like him satisfied with killing someone he was sure was Kira without proof. Solid, factual proof.


    He's under a lot of stress. He wasn't a brat.
    Quit making excuses for the brat lol.



    Do you remember what Light did after he got his memories back? He basically set things up so that he could kill L whenever. He didn't want to kill him immediately, because he knew it would be risky and suspicious.
    Not exactly. That was only the case had Misa remembered L's name. But Light had prepared for every scenario basically. And anyway, L basically ended up dying almost right away so it didn't make a difference. Along with Watari's death, no one else suspected Light.


    Had he been in full possession of his mental faculties, he would have told Mikami to come to the warehouse, find out all of the names, write them on a normal piece of paper, and walk away. Near would have been humiliated (exactly what Light would have wanted), Light would have regained a lot of his comrades' trust, and he would have been free to kill everyone when he needed to.
    Who said he wasn't thinking? Yes, had Light been thinking logically, he should have done exactly what you said. But you forget the fact that Light is a smug, arrogant egomaniac. He made this plan with the full intent of showing to everyone that he was Kira, then killing them and letting them die on that note. He made his own bed.


    But turning around and writing? That would never work. And besides, it would accomplish nothing, since it would just be obvious then that Light was even more dangerous than they had thought, and Matsuda probably would have blown him away.
    Although not the same situation, Light did basically the same thing near the end of the Yotsuba arc. He had to write Kyosuke Higuchi with L right next to him. Now even though it wasn't the same situation, its compareable. Light was working with a similar timeframe; also, if L sees him writing something moments after receiving the DN, and then Higuchi dies, he'll put 2+2 together. Light did it once, he could've done it again.


    I would.
    Not that I don't think you're capable, but put yourself in Light's shoes at that moment: you've been revealed as Kira, and your attempt at swaying everyone to your way of thinking has failed miserably. Now what do you do?



    He had plenty of time to cook up a decent warehouse plan. I came up with the "Mikami leaves" idea in about three seconds.
    It was at the very least, decent. When else would Light have an opportunity to take care of everyone who knew about the DN so neatly? And being the person he was, he wanted all of them to know it was he who was Kira and had done this to them, especially Near.


    Here's another plan Light could have used: He could have had Mikami write the names of everyone besides Near on a fake Note, and then allow himself to be captured...and identify Near as Kira. That would have confused the investigation team long enough for Light to get Near's name from Mikami and kill everyone.

    Yet another plan: He could have written the names of his men in the Note, along with the entry, "restrains Near and his men for [amount of time]", or something to that effect. Then, while his men were restraining Near and his people, Light could have executed them one by one...not with the Note, but with his gun. That plan is weaker but it would probably have worked.

    Light's plan was stupid.
    For your first plan, I think Near puts a stop to any suspicion that he's Kira right away. His men most definitely won't believe it, and as for Light's men, Near can get Aizawa to vouch for him. Not to mention that if both Light and Mikami both walk out of the warehouse alive, they will be definitely kept separate and from writing anything.

    And the second plan: Who is writing these names in the DN? Not Light, who was under 24 hour surveillance. He simply cannot create an opportunity to do this. And with Takada gone by the time the meeting is arranged, that plan is basically moot. No real way for Light to arrange something like that.

  8. #18
    jamie1990 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    it's a good theory cooler. but I have a few qualms with it.


    first of all, I don't think near would resort to using a deathnote.
    Quote Originally Posted by coolorimmortal
    But remember, Near didn't have L's sense of justice. He was certain Light was Kira, anyways. I'm sure he had it in him to kill Light, and if he was wrong, he could simply say, "Oh shit, there's another Kira".
    but remember sometime before hand, after mikami and light have been identified by near as the two kiras, one of the american agents says something along the lines of "why don't we detain them both? if the murders stop happening we can use that as proof for them being kira" but near says something like: no, while we could do it that way, that is not what the true L would have wanted so we need to beat kira at his own game.
    I think this character evidence is just as valid as light's out of character actions which support your theory.

    also I think scriver058 is right in thinking, that if your name is written in a deathnote, you cannot be afffected by other deathnotes. so if light was alreadyunder its influence, ryuku couldn't then kill him with his own.

    however altogether it is a well thought out theory, I would have a lot more respect for the end of the manga if it were the case

  9. #19
    Rei-kun is offline Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie1990 View Post
    i
    first of all, I don't think near would resort to using a deathnote.

    but remember sometime before hand, after mikami and light have been identified by near as the two kiras, one of the american agents says something along the lines of "why don't we detain them both? if the murders stop happening we can use that as proof for them being kira" but near says something like: no, while we could do it that way, that is not what the true L would have wanted so we need to beat kira at his own game.
    I think this character evidence is just as valid as light's out of character actions which support your theory.

    also I think scriver058 is right in thinking, that if your name is written in a deathnote, you cannot be afffected by other deathnotes. so if light was alreadyunder its influence, ryuku couldn't then kill him with his own.
    First point: Yep, exactly, but there`s some more i think:
    Didn`t even Light profile Near as a person who`d never use human lives like L did on "his" TV appearence? And Near wanted to win because of his intelligence.

    But secondly why shouldn`t the Death of a person occur if it`s writte in an other notebook an hour before? But I think if it`s for Shiningami`s the livespan of the dead person is for the first Shiningami whowrote it.

    Thirdly think about the way Light is depicted in the Manga, at first he isn`t so
    megalomaniac, he seems even sympathetic, although he`s kira. But the author as I read had to write the story so that Light looses and so Light had to get fanatic and pathetic over the story, so that the readers know, that "real" justice wins. I think that`s the reason, why light seems so megalomaniac and coldblooded in the movie and anime and why he`s so out of character in the end. Either way mekami was a fanatic idiot who followed his leader, knowing he was wrong or knowing he`d be imprisoned for the rest of his life he killed himself.
    Last edited by Rei-kun; 12-31-2006 at 08:14 AM.

  10. #20
    coolerimmortal is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayashi Rato View Post
    maybe its this? this might sound crazy, but maybe ryuk killed light? thats crazy, yah, but lets say Near killed light, then how did light die 40 seconds within ryuk writing his name in the death note, and ryuk knew from the beginning how light was gonna die rite?, if he knew that he wouldnt let Near take away his kill, cuz Ryuk said he was gonna kill him.....ryuk musta killed light,
    Light's death could have easily been manipulated to appear to have been at Ryuk's hands. It wouldn't have been very hard for Near to do. All he had to do was write that Light dies, seemingly at the hands of someone in the warehouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    It's not possible for Light to mess up? He isn't a god, after all.
    It's possible, but to the degree that we saw? That wasn't the sort of mistake Light would make.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Not only thought, proved. For your theory to work, those last few chapters would've have to had gone differently. The way you state it, and the fact that you say that Near is a brat, contradicts Near's actions at the end. Light didn't just come in and confess. Not that your theory is wrong, but the events at the warehouse seem, I don't know, not exactly the work of a DN entirely?
    The events at the warehouse seem exactly like the work of the DN. Near just had to specify that Light would try to kill them and fail (thus proving to the team that he's Kira), then confess (thus solidifying it), and then die (before he can get away.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Nope. That doesn't jibe at all. He could obviously kill Light, yes, but to say that he didn't have L's sense of justice feels wrong. Maybe not his exact sense of justice, but L is the kid's idol. Near wanted Light brought to justice; Light being dead meant nothing unless he was first proven conclusively that he was Kira. Furthermore, Near's explanations and actions in the last few chapters are too precise and on the ball to be just a DN byproduct. He was proving to all in the room that Light was Kira.
    He was gloating and trying to humiliate Light. That wasn't about proving he was Kira, that was about humiliating him.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    But Matsuda's theory was just that, a theory. And if Near did write Mikami's name into the DN, im betting he did not tell any of his men.
    Precisely. He wouldn't have told his men, just as he wouldn't have told them had he killed Light.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Not the case at all. Near states in chapter 104 that he and Mello have finally done what L could not, present the true Kira to evidence. If he really thought he had all the proof he needed, why say that?
    All the proof he needed to convince himself Light was Kira. He obviously needed more evidence to prove it to the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Because no matter what he thought about who was Kira, he knew he needed validation, i.e. proof. Sure, he was like 99% sure that Light was Kira, but his suspicions meant nothing without validation. He used Mikami to get that, to prove to everyone that Light was indeed Kira. Using the DN to kill a person he was all but sure was Kira wouldn't have been enough. No, Near doesn't quite have the sense of justice that L had, but they think in the same way; in logic and facts. Things need to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Near wants to win more than L, perhaps, but no way is a guy like him satisfied with killing someone he was sure was Kira without proof. Solid, factual proof.
    Near was certain Light was Kira. Killing Mikami was underhanded and evil enough, it only makes sense that he would continue his work and finish the job with Light.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Not exactly. That was only the case had Misa remembered L's name. But Light had prepared for every scenario basically. And anyway, L basically ended up dying almost right away so it didn't make a difference. Along with Watari's death, no one else suspected Light.
    Light said that Misa remembering was optimal, so that he could kill Light whenever.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Who said he wasn't thinking? Yes, had Light been thinking logically, he should have done exactly what you said. But you forget the fact that Light is a smug, arrogant egomaniac. He made this plan with the full intent of showing to everyone that he was Kira, then killing them and letting them die on that note. He made his own bed.
    He could have accomplished that in a much safer and controlled manner. It was in his nature to do things in such a way that he was guaranteed victory. He wouldn't have made such a huge gamble on an idiotic plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Although not the same situation, Light did basically the same thing near the end of the Yotsuba arc. He had to write Kyosuke Higuchi with L right next to him. Now even though it wasn't the same situation, its compareable. Light was working with a similar timeframe; also, if L sees him writing something moments after receiving the DN, and then Higuchi dies, he'll put 2+2 together. Light did it once, he could've done it again.
    That situation was completely different. At that time, Light had nearly been absolved of the Kira crimes, and L had just discovered how the DN killed. Plus, they had just caught Kira. That was dangerous, but it was nothing compared to the utter stupidity of writing the name in front of everyone in the warehouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    Not that I don't think you're capable, but put yourself in Light's shoes at that moment: you've been revealed as Kira, and your attempt at swaying everyone to your way of thinking has failed miserably. Now what do you do?
    I surrender. I allow them to arrest me, and I get taken away. As soon as I'm locked up, I carefully (so as not to be seen) remove the scrap of Death Note (I'd have concealed more pieces all over my body, for the record) and write "Nate River. Brings the Death Notes to [my location], frees the prisoner there, and dies of a heart attack.", or something to that effect. Then, with my remaining time, I'd write the names of as many others from the warehouse as I could, instructing them to do similar things. Once I had the Death Notes and was free, I'd walk out.

    Gotta run for now, I'll finish this later.

 

 
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