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  1. #11
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    What's weird is that Hoshino seemed to go against everything she's been implying for chapters.

    It DID seem as if Mana was going to be the 14th, and while Mana being his brother is better than Mana being a random minion/friend, it still feels a bit weird. Now we really have nothing on the 14th, despite knowing that he apparently was connected to Allen somehow (but how? Wouldn't Allen know if he met the 14th, and if not, why would people like the Earl know he was connected at all unless the guy resembled Allen so closely it's not coincidental?) and possibly even met him. Things would have made sense if it was Mana, but now, we're left with even more questions, I think. That part's more okay, though.

    But Allen? At first, Hoshino seemed to imply that he really was a Noah (a normal one) with the shadow, then seemed to change her mind and make it a separate entity - as if Allen was a normal human with the Noah powers. What about that image from 165 where he has one black wing? Yet now it seems he's the original 14th, which somehow turns all that on its head because he's a full Noah - but it isn't Allen, it's some other guy. Where did that come from?

    And most of all, what the HELL happened to that "human controller" bit? Considering that the 14th apparently stuck his memories into Allen, not the power to control the Ark, that stuff feels irrelevant and confusing. It's like Hoshino forgot all about it, or set it up to make us think one thing so she could surprise us with a plot twist. Most people probably forgot all about it, but it's much harder to see how that makes sense the way things are now.

    Of course, then there's the flashback. Gee thanks, Allen, you spent seven years being kicked around in a circus and never felt it was worth mentioning? Again, was Hoshino just playing around so we could think up ridiculous theories? It looked more as if Allen didn't remember AT ALL (or he could've had a really boring life), but one would think that such an abusive and shitty past would have been mentioned before now - at least in the fanbook, if nothing else. And why DID Mana pick him up? Coincidence/fate? Kid looked like his deceased younger brother? What the hell? I'm sure Hoshino could have thought of something way better, and it feels like this part of the story will either stay full of holes or Hoshino will have some boring explanation. It's like a disappointing resolution to a foreshadowed event in The Wheel of Time (epic book series) - if you set something up to be exciting, you'd better make it exciting or else you'll annoy a lot of fans who were waiting for something way more awesome.

    Most of all: Either Mana was the 14th, or Allen is - that was how it should have been (both would have been too awesome for this series). Now it looks like neither, since Allen just has the 14th stuck in him according to what most fans seem to believe. If Allen spontaneously turns into a Noah and is still Allen, GREAT! There's hope, but sadly, I'm not too confident that'll happen anymore.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  2. #12
    infamouse is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post

    Of course, then there's the flashback. Gee thanks, Allen, you spent seven years being kicked around in a circus and never felt it was worth mentioning?
    He didn't say he was in a circus but he mention that mana was traveling performer.

  3. #13
    stained_black is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazechrno
    And mana looks... better when he isn't a clown.
    I lawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by digi
    But Allen? At first, Hoshino seemed to imply that he really was a Noah (a normal one) with the shadow, then seemed to change her mind and make it a separate entity - as if Allen was a normal human with the Noah powers. What about that image from 165 where he has one black wing? Yet now it seems he's the original 14th, which somehow turns all that on its head because he's a full Noah - but it isn't Allen, it's some other guy. Where did that come from?
    Hmm, if the 14th is some other guy, then when did the 14th come into contact with Allen (=o digi's right. Plot hole-y!) I mean Cross said that Mana != 14th, since he said that they were brothers.
    And most of all, what the HELL happened to that "human controller" bit? Considering that the 14th apparently stuck his memories into Allen, not the power to control the Ark, that stuff feels irrelevant and confusing. It's like Hoshino forgot all about it, or set it up to make us think one thing so she could surprise us with a plot twist. Most people probably forgot all about it, but it's much harder to see how that makes sense the way things are now.
    I think I'll blame her editors for this one, I mean I think no author would turn his/her back on what he/she's already placed down, no? I think this is a ploy to get the readers back because of the epic fail of the filler arc.

    Also what about the whole eye scratching thing? If Mana was the 14th I think that would be the most plausible way to transfer anything, no?

    (am just throwing random ideas here >.>)

    Sidenote: Looking back on that chapter, Lenalee's prettier with longer hair xD (that and i think her face is more angular?)

    Thanks for silverwmoon for the purty sig :3

  4. #14
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Allen clearly was working at a circus; that's where he was at the beginning of 166, right? Mana was the travelling performer.

    I'm blaming her editor, too; stuff made sense before... fairly recently, and we never saw any of this mind-changing business. I think Hoshino always intended to introduce this information here, or was aware that it needed to be done (it looks like there's still a LOT of plot left), but it's what actually happened that feels wrong. Bring back Yoshidaaaaa!
    ~Digital_Eon~




  5. #15
    Sherman is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I still don't get your problem...

    Quote Originally Posted by DE
    Yet now it seems he's the original 14th, which somehow turns all that on its head because he's a full Noah - but it isn't Allen, it's some other guy. Where did that come from?
    Ordinarally, I guess we can assume that when a Noah dies, his "Noahness" goes into space, and then eventually finds another host and gets born into them. That seems to be about right with what we've seen so far.

    In this case, the Noah-ness was transferred from the original 14th into Allen directly, instead of waiting for fate. We don't know if it was before he was born, or after, or how it was done, but it WAS done in an unnatural way, and so now we have the unusual instance where the Noah is awakening in someone who was never supposed to be its host. That's leading to clashing personalities inside Allen.

    Perhaps, sometimes the 14th is more prominent, as in the Musician's room, especially when he needed Allen to work the piano or his host would die. In most other cases, it seems he can be pushed back further so he just appears as more of a "shadow".

    And Allen's circus background is common knowledge. That we haven't seen it in any real depth isn't plot-holey, it's just revealing information at appropriate times. And yeah, it's after the fanbook - it's for exactly this kind of reason that I said the fanbook would become outdated.

    As for the wing thing, I think it was either just symbolism and not real wings, or else another instance of the competing psyches of Allen and the 14th resulting in an imperfect form.

    I think this solution is unexpected, but perfectly in line with what we've seen so far.

    But I don't remember this "human controller" thing. What was that?

  6. #16
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    It's not so much the circus background as that we never heard of anything of Allen's past before now - even in the fanbook. This, of course, led to elaborate theories about how he might not remember, or what if it's important... but no, Allen just never felt like mentioning it? It felt like a bit of a let-down; would it really have been too much to have Allen mention something about how he spent his time before Mana in a circus, too? (That, or that's what he meant on that page of volume 3, and the translators messed up.)

    The 'human controller' is something I'm surprised people don't remember. The original story we were given about the 14th at the end of volume 9 was this: that he betrayed the Earl, drove the Ark insane, and gave his right to be a 'performer' to an unknown person. It's even mentioned multiple times after that, all throughout Cross's first appearance and related scenes. What doesn't fit is that Cross implied that the 14th transferred his powers to Allen after he died (or set it up before) to make another 14th. The implication is that the 14th was creating another Noah - himself. How does that fit with the concept of transferring powers to a regular human? I guess it could for new readers who weren't around for earlier discussions, but I'm sure Hoshino could have set it up in a better way that didn't lead to such confusion. There was no indication at all originally that making a new Noah was intentional (at least, the point was not about the 14th practically extending his lifespan). For that matter, if this was all done before Allen's birth, which seems very possible, there is no human controller since Allen would have been born as a pre-awakened Noah!
    ~Digital_Eon~




  7. #17
    Sherman is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I'm really not at all surprised about the background not being mentioned in any great detail up until this point. This is not only standard comic practice, it's standard story-telling practice. Withhold certain background situations until an appropriate time. It wasn't in the fanbook because the fanbook wouldn't be about to give away important plot points before they were revealed in the manga. If you're upset about that, I'd say you'd better be prepared to be disappointed by more stuff you don't know in the future. I told you the fanbook was coming out prematurely - of course this kind of thing was going to happen.

    Also, tell me what page on Volume 3 you're talking about and I'll check it against my Jap version.

    Ah, I remember the human controller thing you're talking about. I guess if you think about it too much, it doesn kind of jar a little.... but how about this?

    When the Earl was talking about how the 14th transferred his Musician's characteristic to an unknown person, he only mentioned the Musician bit because that was all that was important at the time. After all, he was explaining why the couldn't move the Ark. That was the only part of the story relevant at the time. However, what was actually transferred, or rather, duplicated, was his entire set of "memories" - which I think we can assume basically means psyche. Including the Musician bit.

    Probably because Mana or Cross would have been too obvious, they were transferred into a young Allen. Fits to me. OR, they were transferred to Cross, who later used his own magic (since we know he has some) to put them into Allen himself.

    I think it fits, however, I do think that Mana being the 14th and transferring the skills via the scratch on his eye fits much more nicely. If Mana was just a normal guy after all, how did he make that curse, anyway?

    OR, how about this (just thought ) - the memories were transferred to Mana. Cross promised the 14th that he would look after Mana, so that one day the 14th could come back to him, like he said. Because if he looked after Mana's body - the host for the 14ths revival, then the 14th would be able to return. However, Mana was killed, and then inserted the memories into Allen via that scratch.

    Hey, that works

  8. #18
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Okay, the fanbook came out too early, I'll admit that. I just don't see why Allen being part of a circus couldn't have been revealed before - it's not like it greatly affected the plot, or...

    I guess the human controller thing could work IF the Earl didn't know about the complete transfer of powers, and if that happened before the 14th died as opposed to after. Still, there's a lot left to be explained, and not in the satisfying-curiosity way. Unfortunately, transferring powers to Mana/Cross doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense when we consider that Allen apparently had, and still has, a strong physical resemblance to the 14th. Unless this is somehow genetic (unlikely, as implied in 167), he'd have had to have the powers before.
    ~Digital_Eon~




 

 
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