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  1. #21
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    The dinner thing was a joke.
    Which i continued.

    Still, the Egg apparently isn't so important that the Earl needs to go himself; he can probably build a new one, although it'll be a huge pain to do so. Besides, the mission should have succeeded. It didn't because of the use of the white Ark, and because the Generals used some weird strategy, but Lulubell nearly did succeed. It does seem a little weird for him not to go, though, since he's appeared in previous scenes - this was probably used to facilitate the appearance of another Noah. (I'd blame this one on the anime, though. Lulubell appeared there long before she did in the manga.)
    The why risk a Noah trying to get it back? Noah are rare, just wasting them without a purpose is....

    Kanda wasn't; he's on Tiedoll's team. Besides - what other team? There are fourteen Exorcists; everyone else is DEAD.
    Main/protagonist team: Allen, Rabi, Kanda, Linalee. This were introduced from the beginning, granted to have special position.

    A lack of character development doesn't mean that it isn't interesting to see characters react to situations at all. It'd be bad if DGM never had character development, but it's happening (slowly, and in a subtle manner) and the big events that will drastically change characters haven't happened yet.
    To me a good plot is all about character development. Maybe its only me though. Thats why i liked Fruits Basket.

    I said "fairly deep"; they're not so complex that you could write literary criticisms on them for eternity, but none of the characters are perfect stereotypes. They actually have personalities that make (most of) them distinct from one another and don't require those characters to be in specific situations. They're not perfect and people can actually relate to them. o_o
    Yeah, they are not just copypaste from other mangas. Well, not all of them are. But thats not enough to call manga great or unique.

  2. #22
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    Like it couldn't be predicted that if houndred of level 3 from tokyo and team of 5 Noah can't beat some wannabe exorcist, one Noah and some level 3 will defeat Generals. Earl proves to be a person with complete lack of imagination.
    The Generals weren't expected to show up, I think. Lulu wanted to get the Egg, make some Skulls, and gtfo of there. With her water-form that couldn't be damaged, there's no reason that she couldn't have gotten the Egg out anyway.

    Survival of the fittest - that's the main team, none of them can be considered as average exorcist anymore. Chaoji is.
    Chaoji is a freaking wuss. Actually, none of the Exorcists would have survived an attack by a Noah at that time. The other two teams were just fortunate enough not to have been targeted right away. Allen, for one, would have died at Tiki's hands had the Noah not been overconfident.

    Subtle you say..they subtly entered his brains and shown the images of past (Lavi). And Lenalee - we already knew about her past, it was subtly presented by Komui. We know nothing of Kanda.
    Subtle character development - like how Lavi slowly grows to appreciate his friends more or how Lenalee becomes stronger and more open in spirit as time passes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    At least some hints would be nice. At least some. Not just bvery basis like Heart is different from everyone else, something bigger. Or else ot looks too much like a plothole.
    I think it'd be trying to explain why Lenalee's Innocence is different... hopefully someone will mention Allen... and make people wonder how Innocence CAN act on its own.

    Out of fourteen Exorcists one is Chaoji, one is Miranda, one is Tiedoll, and most of others are most likely as strong as that comrade of Kanda who died. Hardly equal to Noahs team. Unawakened Tyky was enough to take out average exorcist and general.
    Anyone would have died if they encountered a random man whom they knew nothing about and had their heart pulled out. Unawakened Tiki, in an actual battle, fought fairly equally against Allen until they used Epic Attacks (lol what - Hoshino sucks at ending arcs). With the element of surprise, anyone could kick butt; that's also how Road managed to injure everyone in the Rewinding Town arc when she'd have a really hard time duplicating that act.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox
    The why risk a Noah trying to get it back? Noah are rare, just wasting them without a purpose is....
    Lulu was clearly never "at risk".

    Main/protagonist team: Allen, Rabi, Kanda, Linalee. This were introduced from the beginning, granted to have special position.
    Lavi wasn't introduced until volume 4 (well, the end of 3). Of course they're special, but...

    To me a good plot is all about character development. Maybe its only me though. Thats why i liked Fruits Basket.
    So wait until the end of the manga to see if it happens or not. ^_^

    Yeah, they are not just copypaste from other mangas. Well, not all of them are. But thats not enough to call manga great or unique.
    It's great because of a combination of things, although I admit that Hoshino hasn't done a good job of bringing it all together yet.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  3. #23
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    The Generals weren't expected to show up, I think. Lulu wanted to get the Egg, make some Skulls, and gtfo of there. With her water-form that couldn't be damaged, there's no reason that she couldn't have gotten the Egg out anyway.
    Even less imagination skills - you should always be prepared for worst. Why wouldn't Generals be there, considering latest actions and lack of power inside the order.

    Chaoji is a freaking wuss. Actually, none of the Exorcists would have survived an attack by a Noah at that time. The other two teams were just fortunate enough not to have been targeted right away. Allen, for one, would have died at Tiki's hands had the Noah not been overconfident.
    Yet they survived, that proves something.

    Subtle character development - like how Lavi slowly grows to appreciate his friends more or how Lenalee becomes stronger and more open in spirit as time passes.
    Wasn't that the whole point that he already changed since we saw him ? And that's why Bookman was mentioning he is being unproffesional.

  4. #24
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    Even less imagination skills - you should always be prepared for worst. Why wouldn't Generals be there, considering latest actions and lack of power inside the order.
    The Generals weren't expected to get in the room because of the Black Ark.

    Yet they survived, that proves something.
    They survived what? Not being attacked?

    Wasn't that the whole point that he already changed since we saw him ? And that's why Bookman was mentioning he is being unproffesional.
    Probably because the changes in Lavi that were occurring in the manga were *too* subtle. Even now, he's still becoming more and more friendly.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  5. #25
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    In the end, that was a half-assed operation that success could be easily assured if Earl and Noah

    a) Thought about it for little longer
    b) Brought real strength or at least himself.

    I don't see why wouldn't Earl be able to simply obliterate the black order and all innocences stored there just for 'revenge' purpose. That way he would not only get the egg back, he would kick the exorcists out of the picture and have a lot of fun because of it.

    Surviving is the greatest skill - and don't say they weren't attacked because they were, it's just that Noahs acts really retarded as all of them proved to have sure-to-kill skill but for some strange reasons they never use them to kill their opponents. Why ? Absolutely no reason, as Noah proved before that they can be pretty ruthless and straight to the point (at least Tiki). So why this whole masquarade ? The odds are obvious - Earl has a complete upper hand and existence of Black Order is nowhere near necessary for him - at least there is no hints it is.

    Lavi doesn't look really that different - actually, he looks a little more mature lately, but he proved before that he can be serious when others are at stake. We never seen Lavi abandoning his friends or simply ignoring the threat just because "He is bookman". It's not about being subtle, it's just that there were no hints he was like that before. The idea he was like that isn't far-fetched but doesn't feel important either - he was like that before, he isn't any more and it seems he managed to get thought it quite well, as he defeated Road.

    In the end, we know that they were different in past but they didn't really change now in present. Did Lenalee changed much since the first time we met her ? I wouldn't say she did, even the whole "Anita period" was only to cheer her up, but didn't change her much. Did she become stronger ? She was quite strong to begin with, both physically and mentally, it's just that he was showing it off more as situation required it.

    The one who we can say had real character development was Crowley - as he really became a fighter and not a wuss. But he is still quite 2D character.

    In the end, there isn't much grayness in D.Gray-man. Even the whole evil looking Inspector is just a man whose job require to be hated, but he isn't evil inside. As from all characters in the DGM, I found it as the only "realistic" character. All other are unrealistic as they character development doesn't really make much sense.

  6. #26
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    In the end, that was a half-assed operation that success could be easily assured if Earl and Noah

    a) Thought about it for little longer
    b) Brought real strength or at least himself.

    I don't see why wouldn't Earl be able to simply obliterate the black order and all innocences stored there just for 'revenge' purpose. That way he would not only get the egg back, he would kick the exorcists out of the picture and have a lot of fun because of it.
    The Earl isn't quite that strong. If Allen could fight against him for more than ten seconds and not die, it's not unreasonable to believe that the Earl would have gotten his butt kicked somehow. He's got... what, an umbrella that turns into a sword? Right. So effective. And even if the Earl was powerful enough to do so, he probably doesn't have enough knowledge about the Order. For all the Earl knows, they could have some incredible weapon that would wipe him out if he entered, but that they haven't used for various reasons (transportation could be one). Infiltration would be dangerous now that Allen's around, and that person would either need years to become well-known and established (the Earl wasn't very active until very recently) or would have to do an impressive job of impersonating an existing higher-up. That'd be difficult.

    Surviving is the greatest skill - and don't say they weren't attacked because they were, it's just that Noahs acts really retarded as all of them proved to have sure-to-kill skill but for some strange reasons they never use them to kill their opponents. Why ? Absolutely no reason, as Noah proved before that they can be pretty ruthless and straight to the point (at least Tiki). So why this whole masquarade ? The odds are obvious - Earl has a complete upper hand and existence of Black Order is nowhere near necessary for him - at least there is no hints it is.
    Who went after Tiedoll's and Cross's teams? Allen got attacked by Tiki because he was Allen and had a connection with the 14th, not because he was an Exorcist on Cross's team. Daisya probably was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (Tiki stumbled across him by coincidence). Technically, Boric was going after Tiedoll's team, although he obviously did a pretty terrible job of attacking them if no one died. Jasdevi would have targeted the Cross team... but they weren't with Cross at the time. The Cross team, at least, was never actually really attacked.

    The Earl's forces probably aren't as numerous as we think. At the beginning of the manga, he hadn't even really begun to act upon the world (Road mentioned that he hadn't... uh, can't remember what, but something like that in volume 3). There were a number of setbacks, too - for instance, the Ark couldn't move from Edo, and it's also possible that the Earl didn't have all the Noah at the time (I think someone pointed out that in the first Noah appearance in the manga, there are only eight chairs. The absence of five Noah would certainly be a good reason to prolong an attack).

    Perhaps the Earl just doesn't care about the Order; it's not strong enough to pose a problem to him. Alternatively, the Order is also a well-established organization with advantages of its own: every Exorcist, except possibly Hevlaska, is a weapon. Their abilities are almost always for exclusive use in battle. It's also been proved that there should be 109 units of Innocence; while many have been destroyed by the Earl and Noah, the Order does have at least thirty-something of them in its possession. An akuma is no match for an Exorcist. If the Order manages to find accomodators for each Innocence it has, the Earl could be in trouble - Noah aren't that much stronger than the living Exorcists, if they're stronger at all.

    Lavi doesn't look really that different - actually, he looks a little more mature lately, but he proved before that he can be serious when others are at stake. We never seen Lavi abandoning his friends or simply ignoring the threat just because "He is bookman". It's not about being subtle, it's just that there were no hints he was like that before. The idea he was like that isn't far-fetched but doesn't feel important either - he was like that before, he isn't any more and it seems he managed to get thought it quite well, as he defeated Road.
    The Lavi of previous chapters was a friend, but we never saw any indication (until Allen *died*) that he actually cared about them except for duty. He even mentions something about "your comrade(s)" (again, can't remember the exact context) on the boat, which is after we've seen that he does, in fact, have serious feelings. That's slowly changing. You can even ignore the Road scene entirely to see it; while it isn't that obvious, would we have seen Lavi react the same way towards Lenalee in previous chapters as he does now?

    In the end, we know that they were different in past but they didn't really change now in present. Did Lenalee changed much since the first time we met her ? I wouldn't say she did, even the whole "Anita period" was only to cheer her up, but didn't change her much. Did she become stronger ? She was quite strong to begin with, both physically and mentally, it's just that he was showing it off more as situation required it.
    Cross commented that she shows her emotions more and that's certainly true. People complain about her crying, but she really didn't do very much of that in early chapters. Honestly, she was kind of... boring. Lenalee was kind of reserved (as Allen is now, to an extent), but, as with Lavi, she shows it. I don't think it's entirely based on situation, either - the Lenalee now doesn't hesitate to express her anger towards her friends, although she hid it in volume 4 when Allen was being a moron about his own life.

    The one who we can say had real character development was Crowley - as he really became a fighter and not a wuss. But he is still quite 2D character.
    Miranda's undergone similar changes. (Yay Miranda!) They're just less interesting - and popular.

    In the end, there isn't much grayness in D.Gray-man. Even the whole evil looking Inspector is just a man whose job require to be hated, but he isn't evil inside. As from all characters in the DGM, I found it as the only "realistic" character. All other are unrealistic as they character development doesn't really make much sense.
    How do we know that the Inspector isn't evil? We've seen no indication that he's a good person other than the fact that he's angry at Hevlaska for good reasons. We don't really know much about him - and I'm not saying that should be revealed by his past. Rather, we won't really know until we see his reaction to other situations. He's already proven that he doesn't see the Exorcists as other humans with equal claims to life, which may not be evil but is certainly amoral. We've also seen no indication that he is hated by any character in the manga, with the exception of Lenalee (who has very personal reasons for doing so).

    As for the "gray"... I think it's still a little early to be saying that there isn't any "grayness" in the story. DGM doesn't have a typical manga plot with a vague goal that can be sidetracked by minor missions and new enemies and therefore be continued indefinitely; it has a real story that's following the normal path of a story. Stuff is being revealed slowly... and while it would suck if there are tons of plot holes at the end of it, we're hardly at the climax of the story, or anything close to it. So if you're going to be a hater, okay, but then why are you reading the manga if you have so much to criticize and won't wait to see how it's resolved?

    (On the goal/story thing: Allen's goal isn't to become God or anything; he just wants to beat the Earl. There aren't really any options for enemies to exist that aren't already part of the story - as Noah, or as the Order. Eventually, that's going to come to a natural conclusion with a fight between Allen and the Earl, and the story can't be continued beyond that unless the Exorcists go to kill God or something... which would be epic and crazy at the same time, but anyway - It's not Bleach.)
    ~Digital_Eon~




  7. #27
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    1) Apparently Earl lives for centuries already. One would think that enemy like that would really know his stuff
    2) If Order really had such omnipotent weapon, then sending Lulaby was suicidal
    3) You said Allen is a weakling yourself ? Earl was simply surprised and I really doubt he is showing his true powers
    4) No matter what you say, they were in the end attacked by Jasdevi, Boric, Road and Tiki and at the end - Earl. I think surviving that is god-damn impressive, as no one else did it.
    5) Seriously, with Order having 30 innocents like that and Earl having such army like he presented in Edo, why can't he destroy the freaking mountain with the HQ.
    6) Aren't those emotions as expected from their characters ? It's the same what you said about Bleach - those character act like that because they are supposed to act like that. In the end, Lavi still thought of them as a friend, he just tried to act calm when he couldn't. Something one would expect from care-free guy like Lavi.
    7) Miranda is the character with biggest potential and least character development.
    Seriously, Inspector isn't evil or amoral. He is a soldier, more of a soldier than anyone else in the organisation and actually the only one who knows his job and priority. He isn't here to increase morale, he isn't here to start one big family. He is here to win and prevent anything from them to lose. In fact, if it wasn't for inspector, everyone in HQ would be dead as no one would push Lenalee to get her innocence back.
    9) We have good and bad characters. Those who protect and those who kill. How's that qualify as gray when we obviously have black and white. And just because both sides have other emotions than the one you would expect from hero of justice or main villain doesn't make them gray. It just..makes them normal.

    The only grayness is Allen, and not of character but of his power.

  8. #28
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    1) Apparently Earl lives for centuries already. One would think that enemy like that would really know his stuff
    It's possible that the Earl has been asleep/unconscious/in suspended animation/something for most of that time. If not, why wouldn't a proper resistance towards him have been organized earlier rather than a century ago when they found the Innocence Cube. It'd explain why things are happening now rather than thousands of years ago.

    2) If Order really had such omnipotent weapon, then sending Lulaby was suicidal
    If they did, Lulu dies. If they don't, now the Earl knows. Sometimes you have to sacrifice one of your own to save the rest, right?

    3) You said Allen is a weakling yourself ? Earl was simply surprised and I really doubt he is showing his true powers
    Of course the Earl is stronger. He's just not that much stronger as to be able to do incredible things and destroy people so easily.

    4) No matter what you say, they were in the end attacked by Jasdevi, Boric, Road and Tiki and at the end - Earl. I think surviving that is god-damn impressive, as no one else did it.
    They weren't attacked all at once, and it wasn't a surprise. Each of them actually fought a Noah rather than being assassinated by one without even knowing the Noah was there.

    5) Seriously, with Order having 30 innocents like that and Earl having such army like he presented in Edo, why can't he destroy the freaking mountain with the HQ.
    Because he may not know the Order's forces and could get his butt kicked if he tried. Alternatively, he may just be waiting to do it when he has even more power just to be safe.

    6) Aren't those emotions as expected from their characters ? It's the same what you said about Bleach - those character act like that because they are supposed to act like that. In the end, Lavi still thought of them as a friend, he just tried to act calm when he couldn't. Something one would expect from care-free guy like Lavi.
    In Bleach, the characters act like they do because of what's needed in the manga at the time, with their personality and past *slightly* mixed in. Lavi's difficulty in preventing himself from making friends isn't due to his carefree personality... but maybe character development? :3

    7) Miranda is the character with biggest potential and least character development.
    She has changed a lot since her first appearance; when was the last time she said anything about being worthless? On Anita's boat?

    Seriously, Inspector isn't evil or amoral. He is a soldier, more of a soldier than anyone else in the organisation and actually the only one who knows his job and priority. He isn't here to increase morale, he isn't here to start one big family. He is here to win and prevent anything from them to lose. In fact, if it wasn't for inspector, everyone in HQ would be dead as no one would push Lenalee to get her innocence back.
    Morals would state that he see humans as human and respect their life (there are ways to justify killing in war even then). He doesn't. That's amoral. He may be doing his job, but he's doing it with a different set of beliefs than would be accepted even among the main characters. He *is* a great character, being such a contrast to everyone else, but that doesn't mean he's a good guy even deep down inside.

    9) We have good and bad characters. Those who protect and those who kill. How's that qualify as gray when we obviously have black and white. And just because both sides have other emotions than the one you would expect from hero of justice or main villain doesn't make them gray. It just..makes them normal.
    Depends on what's "bad". For instance, the Earl wants to bring about the Apocalypse. Many Christians view that as a good thing. The Noah may support the killing of humans for that purpose, but they're also human themselves, and not a single one has killed a human (onscreen, or even that we've heard of) that isn't an Exorcist - basically, self-defence since the Exorcists are doing the same thing (and can accept it). That makes the distinction between "good" and "evil" a little more difficult, and I didn't even mention the basic view of the Order that the lives of their own soldiers aren't really important when it comes to winning the war. While that may be an accepted view for war, it doesn't make it right or "good". We also haven't really seen the conflict from the perspective of the Noah, and we don't know the real motives for each side.

    The only grayness is Allen, and not of character but of his power.
    Hence why it would suck if he didn't actually become a Noah to see their perspective, too. Even then, though, Allen's slowly becoming just a little corrupted... we've already seen his dark side, but he's threatened Noahs with death (and seems to mean it) and also doesn't actually seem to fight to save the akuma as much as just kick its ass (the level 4, anyway). Yeah, he would've saved Tiki, but by then, Tiki was a harmless human - or should have been. Even if it's a small change, it shows he's not perfect and could very well have a darker (or grayer) personality later in the story.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  9. #29
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    It's possible that the Earl has been asleep/unconscious/in suspended animation/something for most of that time. If not, why wouldn't a proper resistance towards him have been organized earlier rather than a century ago when they found the Innocence Cube. It'd explain why things are happening now rather than thousands of years ago.
    Apparently everything is possible at this point butt from what I gathered Earl was slowly gathering his army through all those years
    If they did, Lulu dies. If they don't, now the Earl knows. Sometimes you have to sacrifice one of your own to save the rest, right?
    You should be careful when you sacrifice the queen, just the pawns. That's the basic rule of chess.

    They weren't attacked all at once, and it wasn't a surprise. Each of them actually fought a Noah rather than being assassinated by one without even knowing the Noah was there.
    We know nothing how those battles were done - anime suggested they did put up a fight but they still lost. In manga we know nothing but it's not like Tiki came and it was one-hit-KO. He shown his enemy he is not human. What's the difference for exorcist without Allen eye whatever he is akuma or not. Akuma has many forms.

    Because he may not know the Order's forces and could get his butt kicked if he tried. Alternatively, he may just be waiting to do it when he has even more power just to be safe.
    Then he certainly got what he suspected he will by acting careful.

    In Bleach, the characters act like they do because of what's needed in the manga at the time, with their personality and past *slightly* mixed in. Lavi's difficulty in preventing himself from making friends isn't due to his carefree personality... but maybe character development? :3
    You change the meaning of my words. I never said that his carefree personality prevented him from making friends. His carefree character didn't let him keep calm in the situation with Allen death, making him burst out in anger too. In the end - Lavi is still Lavi and Kanda is still Kanda, while Allen is still Allen and Lenalee has new haircut since the beginning of series.

    She has changed a lot since her first appearance; when was the last time she said anything about being worthless? On Anita's boat?
    As far as Miranda is concerned, how many appearances Miranda had since Anita boat. Mainly "Their time is running out" or "Generals are strong". Wow, so much appearance.

    Morals would state that he see humans as human and respect their life (there are ways to justify killing in war even then). He doesn't. That's amoral. He may be doing his job, but he's doing it with a different set of beliefs than would be accepted even among the main characters. He *is* a great character, being such a contrast to everyone else, but that doesn't mean he's a good guy even deep down inside.
    Sometimes to save people and end the war you need to act like an asshole. One day, the teacher which you hated who almost made you not pass a grade and you hated him will be reminded as someone who actually taught you something. Same case here, although on bigger scale.

    Depends on what's "bad". For instance, the Earl wants to bring about the Apocalypse. Many Christians view that as a good thing. The Noah may support the killing of humans for that purpose, but they're also human themselves, and not a single one has killed a human (onscreen, or even that we've heard of) that isn't an Exorcist - basically, self-defence since the Exorcists are doing the same thing (and can accept it). That makes the distinction between "good" and "evil" a little more difficult, and I didn't even mention the basic view of the Order that the lives of their own soldiers aren't really important when it comes to winning the war. While that may be an accepted view for war, it doesn't make it right or "good". We also haven't really seen the conflict from the perspective of the Noah, and we don't know the real motives for each side.
    As far as Apocalypse is concerned, it's not considered "good" but "inevitable after a amount of sins will be gathered". Yet Apocalypse as Apocalypse is started by God, not a guy in hat and bunny ears. Apparently, if we don't get another Sodoma and Gommora on planet Earth, which many sects believe we already did but whatever, Apocalypse shouldn't happen as it's gods final retribution.

    As far as christianity is concerned, saving ones live is most important and that's what Jesus and God taught.

    Hence why it would suck if he didn't actually become a Noah to see their perspective, too. Even then, though, Allen's slowly becoming just a little corrupted... we've already seen his dark side, but he's threatened Noahs with death (and seems to mean it) and also doesn't actually seem to fight to save the akuma as much as just kick its ass (the level 4, anyway). Yeah, he would've saved Tiki, but by then, Tiki was a harmless human - or should have been. Even if it's a small change, it shows he's not perfect and could very well have a darker (or grayer) personality later in the story.
    Akuma at a level 4 or more don't really resemble humans anymore. No, Akuma at level 2 already had different personality. If he was getting emo while fighting each Akuma, he would be long dead.

    WOW, Dark side. Apparently he threatened his enemy who killed thousands that he will end his evil-doing. That's so dark..let's not be naive.

  10. #30
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    Apparently everything is possible at this point butt from what I gathered Earl was slowly gathering his army through all those years
    He could have been, but if he'd really done so over 7000 years...

    You should be careful when you sacrifice the queen, just the pawns. That's the basic rule of chess.
    He still has a bunch of other Noah. Besides, Lulu has a transformation ability - no one could harm her in her water state. Lulu or Road would have probably been good options to test the Order's reaction while minimizing damage, and no one had seen Lulu before.

    We know nothing how those battles were done - anime suggested they did put up a fight but they still lost. In manga we know nothing but it's not like Tiki came and it was one-hit-KO. He shown his enemy he is not human. What's the difference for exorcist without Allen eye whatever he is akuma or not. Akuma has many forms.
    There wasn't much of a fight between Tiki and Daisya, though. Tiki could just have made himself immune to their attacks and then pulled out the heart - scaring them too. They didn't really have the chance to face him in a fair fight, especially since no other Exorcist really knew of his abilities (Allen was told of them before he died, and could therefore face Tiki later).

    You change the meaning of my words. I never said that his carefree personality prevented him from making friends. His carefree character didn't let him keep calm in the situation with Allen death, making him burst out in anger too. In the end - Lavi is still Lavi and Kanda is still Kanda, while Allen is still Allen and Lenalee has new haircut since the beginning of series.
    ...sort of don't get it? They're all changing, just very slowly. It's barely noticeable. Basically - would all of these characters have said and done the things they did in recent chapters if the same events had occurred at their first appearances? Probably not.


    As far as Miranda is concerned, how many appearances Miranda had since Anita boat. Mainly "Their time is running out" or "Generals are strong". Wow, so much appearance.
    Well, she did have a number of scenes in Edo - also once they got back to the Order - and fighting the akuma. There would have been plenty of opportunities to wuss out or to be emo, but she didn't act that way.

    Sometimes to save people and end the war you need to act like an asshole. One day, the teacher which you hated who almost made you not pass a grade and you hated him will be reminded as someone who actually taught you something. Same case here, although on bigger scale.
    Somehow, I doubt that the Inspector is just acting like an asshole to save everyone. He's shown that he really doesn't care. If you can mistreat children so they grow up to be terrified of you, something is seriously wrong. He's not acting tough to teach someone a lesson (as may be the case with Lavi/Bookman). He's acting like an asshole because we're seeing it from the perspective of Exorcists and those who DO care about them. From his point of view, I doubt he thinks he's doing anything wrong or behaving badly.

    As far as Apocalypse is concerned, it's not considered "good" but "inevitable after a amount of sins will be gathered". Yet Apocalypse as Apocalypse is started by God, not a guy in hat and bunny ears. Apparently, if we don't get another Sodoma and Gommora on planet Earth, which many sects believe we already did but whatever, Apocalypse shouldn't happen as it's gods final retribution.

    As far as christianity is concerned, saving ones live is most important and that's what Jesus and God taught.
    This is almost two thousand years after Jesus; people have some weird ideas about things. Many Christians nowadays (not necessarily Catholics, though) do want the Apocalypse because they believe it means the final conflict between Jesus and evil - eventually, Jesus will win and take all the good Christians off to Heaven for an eternity of happiness. That could be what the Earl wants, too - after all, we don't really know for sure that he isn't on the side of God.


    Akuma at a level 4 or more don't really resemble humans anymore. No, Akuma at level 2 already had different personality. If he was getting emo while fighting each Akuma, he would be long dead.
    He killed the level 3 because he wanted to save it. If Allen really wanted to care about souls, he could.

    WOW, Dark side. Apparently he threatened his enemy who killed thousands that he will end his evil-doing. That's so dark..let's not be naive.
    It's dark for Allen, who wouldn't even consider attacking a human for half the manga.
    ~Digital_Eon~




 

 
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