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  1. #11
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    Looked rather unlogical too - it really seems Earl could just pick up Egg himself and there wouldn't be much of competition. But NO - someone could die.
    He could, but why would the Earl go on his own for a mission that would, in all likelihood, succeed? He probably has other things to worry about, like what's for dinner that night. (Alternatively, Lulubell could have gone on her own. It's unlikely, but we didn't actually see the Earl respond to this...)

    In the end, Allen needed to look a little weaker so Generals introduced would look strong - after that, Allen will only get stronger.
    Allen doesn't just look a little weaker, he IS a little weaker. He gets lucky sometimes, but overall, Allen seems to be as effective in fighting akuma as your average Exorcist. Honestly, the Generals don't seem that much stronger, either - okay, there's Cross, but the other three seemed sort of average.

    You can die from falling from 2 meters if you land on head, you can really damage yourself from 6 meter fall and I don't recommend 10 meter fall, as we are talking about internal bleeding.
    And yet people fall from ridiculous heights and survive. They *were* seriously injured, just not enough to die or be unconscious. Not unrealistic.

    Seems you haven't read One Piece, as the main hero always sleeps for 3 days and eats for 3 days after major fight. There is always a scene with main hero being beaten to a pulp but then having quick recorvery - I believe it will be the same here.
    Yeah, I haven't read One Piece, but that still seems a little comedic. Allen will probably be on his feet in a few DGM-days, but he probably won't be fighting (or will feel the effects if he does).

    Because we didn't see any of them before
    So the ones after the Rewinding Town and the Ark arc didn't exist, nevermind Allen's recovery in the Asia branch or even Lenalee sticking a cold cloth on Allen's head when Komrin knocked him out... After every arc, when it was plausible, there were hospital scenes.

    It's no suprise it will be something super-special awesome
    Of course not, because it's been foreshadowed for god knows how many chapters that it's different. Better than it being Allen, though, right?

    We were made to believe Cross is cool. He is not. But he still attempts to be
    He *is* hot, though. Actually Cross pretending to be cool probably says a lot about his character....

    At least we hoped at beginning it won't be about it.
    What, wouldn't be about fighting? It isn't about fighting. The fighting either supports the plot, since it still needs action due to the plot itself, but you can't read the manga for the fights and nothing else, as with Bleach. (Actually, Hoshino got a new editor recently - it could be his fault. Always blame the editor. :3)

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Assuming he even needs the egg back. From the looks of it he has an abundant number of Akuma already, no need to cret more who are useless anyways.

    Linalee certainly did need to get her powers back, but NOT LIKE THAT.
    The Earl needs the Egg because akuma suck and are weak... plus his goal may be to consolidate souls rather than create weapons.

    All of generals are for him now probably, thus Inspector won't be able to launch any sanctions towards him any time soon.

    Link is already showing sympathy. We need more time to judge his feelings though.
    The Generals were never really against him since two of them barely knew him. (Tiedoll seems like a nice old guy who likes everyone.) I don't think anyone's opinion of him has really changed because it was never that strong in the first place.

    Link probably just got to know Allen and realized that he's a nice guy.

    In that massacre all of them should have died, not just nameless Tapp.

    The fall was from one stage to another, at least spinal cords of theirs should have been broken after that.
    I agree; more Science Section guys should have died than that. (Bak and Reever, though... I think they've still got roles to play....)

    What makes you think that? We know so little about innocence.... The major explanation is needed, not minor one.
    If Innocence is really related to big questions in the manga - such as who's really on the side of God - then major explanations can't really happen now. We need to know as much as we can about Lenalee's Innocence - as much as the Order can say, anyway - but not about Innocence itself.

    We have more Noah then exorcists, enough to give Order hard time. Yet they do not appear at all.
    There are fourteen Exorcists and twelve Noah. At least one of those Noah can't do tons of damage against a large group on her own. It's also possible that not all the Noah have awakened yet, or some are still new...
    ~Digital_Eon~




  2. #12
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I'm being ignored T_T

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    What, wouldn't be about fighting? It isn't about fighting. The fighting either supports the plot, since it still needs action due to the plot itself, but you can't read the manga for the fights and nothing else, as with Bleach. (Actually, Hoshino got a new editor recently - it could be his fault. Always blame the editor. :3)
    And... what about the plot? Where it is?

  3. #13
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    He could, but why would the Earl go on his own for a mission that would, in all likelihood, succeed? He probably has other things to worry about, like what's for dinner that night. (Alternatively, Lulubell could have gone on her own. It's unlikely, but we didn't actually see the Earl respond to this...)
    With that logic, Black Order shouldn't get his hands on egg to begin with

    Allen doesn't just look a little weaker, he IS a little weaker. He gets lucky sometimes, but overall, Allen seems to be as effective in fighting akuma as your average Exorcist. Honestly, the Generals don't seem that much stronger, either - okay, there's Cross, but the other three seemed sort of average.
    Average exorcist can't take on level 3 nor Noah

    And yet people fall from ridiculous heights and survive. They *were* seriously injured, just not enough to die or be unconscious. Not unrealistic.
    You mean manga ? I have yet to see someone falling from 10 meters and stand up saying "I'm okay".

    Yeah, I haven't read One Piece, but that still seems a little comedic. Allen will probably be on his feet in a few DGM-days, but he probably won't be fighting (or will feel the effects if he does).
    I highly doubt that theory, as Allen proved otherwise few times.

    So the ones after the Rewinding Town and the Ark arc didn't exist, nevermind Allen's recovery in the Asia branch or even Lenalee sticking a cold cloth on Allen's head when Komrin knocked him out... After every arc, when it was plausible, there were hospital scenes.
    Sarcasm Digi. I was being sarcastic

    Of course not, because it's been foreshadowed for god knows how many chapters that it's different. Better than it being Allen, though, right?
    The extend of foreshadowing we had made this point more or less a fact already

    He *is* hot, though. Actually Cross pretending to be cool probably says a lot about his character....
    He is filthy anyway. Get him shaved, geez.

    What, wouldn't be about fighting? It isn't about fighting. The fighting either supports the plot, since it still needs action due to the plot itself, but you can't read the manga for the fights and nothing else, as with Bleach. (Actually, Hoshino got a new editor recently - it could be his fault. Always blame the editor. :3)
    Bleach has more character development ;p

  4. #14
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    With that logic, Black Order shouldn't get his hands on egg to begin with
    The Earl isn't omniscient. He thought that Cross was dead/dying and so he wouldn't have to worry about the human controller.

    Average exorcist can't take on level 3 nor Noah
    They did. Kanda vs. Boric? Krory vs. Jasdevi? Allen vs. Tiki (the first time)? Didn't Kanda fight a level 3 in Edo?

    You mean manga ? I have yet to see someone falling from 10 meters and stand up saying "I'm okay".
    They don't stand up, but they do live. There was something about a guy in New York who fell 47 stories and survived, and I think he might be able to walk now, too.

    I highly doubt that theory, as Allen proved otherwise few times.
    What, fighting with Lavi? That was days later...

    The extend of foreshadowing we had made this point more or less a fact already
    And?

    He is filthy anyway. Get him shaved, geez.
    Oh come on, that facial hair is sexy~

    Bleach has more character development ;p
    Okay, now you're just trolling. Bleach characters are as 2D as the paper they're drawn on. Now, if you mean "development by incidents in the manga", okay, no one in DGM has really changed so much in the manga, but they're still fairly deep characters that don't fit perfectly into the typical shounen manga character moulds.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  5. #15
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    The Earl isn't omniscient. He thought that Cross was dead/dying and so he wouldn't have to worry about the human controller.
    If egg is so important he would have gone himself. If the fate of his whole lifelong operation lies on this very moment there is no way he could have ignored it. Assuming eggs importance I find it extremely strange that Earl values one dinner over his goal of life.

    They did. Kanda vs. Boric? Krory vs. Jasdevi? Allen vs. Tiki (the first time)? Didn't Kanda fight a level 3 in Edo?
    This people are from main team.

    Okay, now you're just trolling. Bleach characters are as 2D as the paper they're drawn on. Now, if you mean "development by incidents in the manga", okay, no one in DGM has really changed so much in the manga, but they're still fairly deep characters that don't fit perfectly into the typical shounen manga character moulds.
    You've just said yourself that no character development is there.

    As for depth of characters: who exactly is deep there?

  6. #16
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Lenalee for being Emo and Allen for having uninteresting father. Lavi for actually having his whole life explained in one chapter and Kanda who might actually have a character. If we were to compare it to Bleach or One Piece, DGM characters are not deep at all. I will say DGM character are as deep as Naruto characters.

  7. #17
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    If egg is so important he would have gone himself. If the fate of his whole lifelong operation lies on this very moment there is no way he could have ignored it. Assuming eggs importance I find it extremely strange that Earl values one dinner over his goal of life.
    The dinner thing was a joke. Still, the Egg apparently isn't so important that the Earl needs to go himself; he can probably build a new one, although it'll be a huge pain to do so. Besides, the mission should have succeeded. It didn't because of the use of the white Ark, and because the Generals used some weird strategy, but Lulubell nearly did succeed. It does seem a little weird for him not to go, though, since he's appeared in previous scenes - this was probably used to facilitate the appearance of another Noah. (I'd blame this one on the anime, though. Lulubell appeared there long before she did in the manga.)

    This people are from main team.
    Kanda wasn't; he's on Tiedoll's team. Besides - what other team? There are fourteen Exorcists; everyone else is DEAD.

    You've just said yourself that no character development is there.

    As for depth of characters: who exactly is deep there?
    A lack of character development doesn't mean that it isn't interesting to see characters react to situations at all. It'd be bad if DGM never had character development, but it's happening (slowly, and in a subtle manner) and the big events that will drastically change characters haven't happened yet.

    I said "fairly deep"; they're not so complex that you could write literary criticisms on them for eternity, but none of the characters are perfect stereotypes. They actually have personalities that make (most of) them distinct from one another and don't require those characters to be in specific situations. They're not perfect and people can actually relate to them. o_o

    Edit: Kolox, you're just stereotyping them. The difference between Bleach and DGM is that in Bleach, characters act in a specific way because that's how we'd expect them to react - it's how they need to for the plot. In DGM, characters act in a certain way because of their past experiences. Lenalee isn't emo; her friends are her "world" because she's never had anything else to attach herself to. Allen has been shaped in a certain way by having no one but his father, and then being forced to see things like the akuma souls - it's clear that those affect his character. Lavi still has lots of past to be explained, and I can't defend Kanda because he *is* boring. There's examples of cause-and-effect in people's lives in DGM, but when I read Bleach and Naruto, I don't get that impression at all. Except for the vengeance-seeking emo kids, it's like the past had no effect at all on their present characters (well, except Naruto, to some extent, but I do like his character. It's better than what people assume).
    ~Digital_Eon~




  8. #18
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    The dinner thing was a joke. Still, the Egg apparently isn't so important that the Earl needs to go himself; he can probably build a new one, although it'll be a huge pain to do so. Besides, the mission should have succeeded. It didn't because of the use of the white Ark, and because the Generals used some weird strategy, but Lulubell nearly did succeed. It does seem a little weird for him not to go, though, since he's appeared in previous scenes - this was probably used to facilitate the appearance of another Noah. (I'd blame this one on the anime, though. Lulubell appeared there long before she did in the manga.)
    Like it couldn't be predicted that if houndred of level 3 from tokyo and team of 5 Noah can't beat some wannabe exorcist, one Noah and some level 3 will defeat Generals. Earl proves to be a person with complete lack of imagination.

    Kanda wasn't; he's on Tiedoll's team. Besides - what other team? There are fourteen Exorcists; everyone else is DEAD.
    Survival of the fittest - that's the main team, none of them can be considered as average exorcist anymore. Chaoji is.

    A lack of character development doesn't mean that it isn't interesting to see characters react to situations at all. It'd be bad if DGM never had character development, but it's happening (slowly, and in a subtle manner) and the big events that will drastically change characters haven't happened yet.

    I said "fairly deep"; they're not so complex that you could write literary criticisms on them for eternity, but none of the characters are perfect stereotypes. They actually have personalities that make (most of) them distinct from one another and don't require those characters to be in specific situations. They're not perfect and people can actually relate to them. o_o
    Subtle you say..they subtly entered his brains and shown the images of past (Lavi). And Lenalee - we already knew about her past, it was subtly presented by Komui. We know nothing of Kanda.

  9. #19
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Ah, Digi, ninja-edits Sorry for not replying earlier, just noticed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    The Earl needs the Egg because akuma suck and are weak... plus his goal may be to consolidate souls rather than create weapons.
    I wouldn't be using this theory to prove anything, even if i find it interesting. Just because it is not entirely correct to use something not present in manga.
    If Innocence is really related to big questions in the manga - such as who's really on the side of God - then major explanations can't really happen now. We need to know as much as we can about Lenalee's Innocence - as much as the Order can say, anyway - but not about Innocence itself.
    At least some hints would be nice. At least some. Not just bvery basis like Heart is different from everyone else, something bigger. Or else ot looks too much like a plothole.

    There are fourteen Exorcists and twelve Noah. At least one of those Noah can't do tons of damage against a large group on her own. It's also possible that not all the Noah have awakened yet, or some are still new...
    Out of fourteen Exorcists one is Chaoji, one is Miranda, one is Tiedoll, and most of others are most likely as strong as that comrade of Kanda who died. Hardly equal to Noahs team. Unawakened Tyky was enough to take out average exorcist and general.

  10. #20
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Kolox, you're just stereotyping them. The difference between Bleach and DGM is that in Bleach, characters act in a specific way because that's how we'd expect them to react - it's how they need to for the plot. In DGM, characters act in a certain way because of their past experiences. Lenalee isn't emo; her friends are her "world" because she's never had anything else to attach herself to. Allen has been shaped in a certain way by having no one but his father, and then being forced to see things like the akuma souls - it's clear that those affect his character. Lavi still has lots of past to be explained, and I can't defend Kanda because he *is* boring. There's examples of cause-and-effect in people's lives in DGM, but when I read Bleach and Naruto, I don't get that impression at all. Except for the vengeance-seeking emo kids, it's like the past had no effect at all on their present characters (well, except Naruto, to some extent, but I do like his character. It's better than what people assume).
    Rukia and Renji - quite a lot of character there, considering they were poor and now they became one of the elite. Aizen and Gin - still being developed but we have quite a lot of understanding about their characters based on their past. Yes, all characters there were somehow influenced by their past. Even such stupid character like Hitsuyaga proved to have quite interesting history - an outcast kid whose power harmed others.

    Lavi doesn't have that much past to be explained - the only thing to be explained is what are bookmans and what is their purpose and his eyes power, not Lavi himself.

    In case of self loosing, I find many characters from other manga (and yes, FSN ) much more believable and deeper than Lenalee.

 

 
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