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  1. #81
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Thier headdquaters are in Vatican. Also, higher ups like to talk about how they are saints and all. That just so happened that thier only real power could care less about being that supposedly gave them that power. Happens.

  2. #82
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    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    I don't see why Allen wouldn't betray humanity if he was emotional enough to. If his trust in the Order and Mana was lost, why wouldn't he necessarily lash out and agree that humans are bad, let's kill them all (except for Lenalee? Come on, repopulation has to happen somehow xD). In the end, yeah, he'll go back to them, but I think that Allen could be persuaded fairly easily to join the Noah, particularly if the Order continues to reject him.

    On the topic of Lenalee... actually, new nuns cut their hair very short to make it fit under that habit thing, don't they? They also have that initiation ceremony where they dress in white 'cause it's like they become the bride of Christ. There's a Jesus parallel in DGM, too... :3

    The Order members are religious, just not fundamentalists who take every little thing literally and ignore the basic message. They almost certainly believe in God (the innocence is from God), they DO believe in Noah's Ark and the flood, and they almost certainly believe in Jesus and all those other people, too. The reason we haven't seen God yet is probably because: a) it would reveal too much (who's good/who's bad) and b) what needs to be said about God? Everyone believes in God. They don't get down on their knees and pray every moment of the day, but that doesn't mean they're not Catholic.

    ...also, the Exorcists probably fight for their own reasons because it's far easier to go out and risk your life when you have reasons besides "God wants me to".
    ~Digital_Eon~




  3. #83
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    You know, believing in God is a great reason actually - because "God" is way of life, it should give the idea that we are doing some job in this life so we have great afterlife. That's one of the most important thing about christianity, never mentioned.

    I don't really remember Jesus being mentioned. I think a catholic organisation would be talking more about god, because that's pretty much some consolation for people chosen by him - otherwise they would just feel like random people picked up by innocence in some kind of lottery and they really shouldn't care about humanity so much.

  4. #84
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    You know, believing in God is a great reason actually - because "God" is way of life, it should give the idea that we are doing some job in this life so we have great afterlife. That's one of the most important thing about christianity, never mentioned.
    ...Well, I can't really blame Hoshino if she isn't one of the 2% or so of Catholics in Japan. =P Still, if they're not incredibly devout Catholics, they'd need a better reason that would actually provide motivation. They can say that they're fighting for God, but internally, they have other reasons that they can't deny. Even the excuse of justice would work better than that. Besides, would you really want to think about the afterlife if you (weren't a crazy fundamentalist and) spent every day facing death?!

    I don't really remember Jesus being mentioned. I think a catholic organisation would be talking more about god, because that's pretty much some consolation for people chosen by him - otherwise they would just feel like random people picked up by innocence in some kind of lottery and they really shouldn't care about humanity so much.
    He hasn't been. I'm sure they believe in him, though. The Exorcists are constantly being told or hearing that they're chosen by God; why would they need to repeat it to themselves? They're the only ones we see the perspective of, too. Still, seeing as it's a war, I think God is much more of a presence than we'd normally think; you don't need to constantly think about God or talk about God because you know God is somehow involved in what's going on. It doesn't need to be mentioned.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  5. #85
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I don't understand the term of devout Catholic you use. Either you believe in those simple doctrines or no.

    You see, if your part of a church, you at least should meet a qualification of devout catholic you use. All priests pretty much agree that Job made a right decision, why wouldn't exorcist think so too.

    I blame Hoshino if she didn't care to learn more about Christianity but brought it up without having much knowledge about it and maybe learning about great flood from Discovery channel.

  6. #86
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    The Discovery Channel isn't a good source of information for the flood; it mostly talks about modern-day Middle Eastern countries. =P Believe it or not, I watched a few of those shows on Noah's Ark...

    Why wouldn't the Exorcists believe in the simple doctrines? I meant that they don't have to follow the little things that fundamentalists today do to still be Catholic and believe in God and Jesus. The fact that they don't say anything about Jesus and very little about God besides the Exorcists being "chosen" seems to me that it's just so obvious that no one needs to say anything about it. God exists; God has a hand in what's going on now; it's only natural to believe in it. You don't see everyone going on about things like Allen's scar, do you? =P
    ~Digital_Eon~




  7. #87
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I believe they should believe in those if they are really vatican exorcist, but the idea is not presented. In DGM you get there is no God but a flying spaghetti monster. A word of consolation taken from bible, prayer or something, that would be climatic. Not ankward shirts that have crosses which stopped look like crosses. I don't really feel any connection.

    And come on, from whole church there isn't even one fanatic ? I won't believe that

  8. #88
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    The Rose Cross isn't actually a Catholic symbol. ^^;; Its existence, however, shows that Hoshino actually did some research. Maybe that shows you're right - it is more of a Masonic organization than a typical Christian one... although that could mean that the Order itself doesn't really follow God and open the door to the "Noah are on the 'right' side" debate again. I'm a little surprised that no one's quoted the Bible yet, but maybe that'll happen in the future; who knows.

    They probably lock up the fanatics. :3
    ~Digital_Eon~




  9. #89
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digi
    I don't see why Allen wouldn't betray humanity if he was emotional enough to. If his trust in the Order and Mana was lost, why wouldn't he necessarily lash out and agree that humans are bad, let's kill them all (except for Lenalee? Come on, repopulation has to happen somehow xD). In the end, yeah, he'll go back to them, but I think that Allen could be persuaded fairly easily to join the Noah, particularly if the Order continues to reject him.
    He can't betray humanity becasue it is a central paradigm of his life philosophy - he lives to save human and akuma. Looking at how he fail to care about God, Order and stuff, it would be hard to make him change his entire way of thinking just buy kicking him out of Order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digi
    ...also, the Exorcists probably fight for their own reasons because it's far easier to go out and risk your life when you have reasons besides "God wants me to".
    What about Crusades? What about all that self-bombing terrorists? What do they fight for?

    And no, nuns can't wear miniskirts. Not that I'm against it, though.

    I have to agree with Kolox, that religious Order is not religious enough. However, it is not that big of a problem for me, since it doesn't ruin athmosphere of manga.

  10. #90
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    He can't betray humanity becasue it is a central paradigm of his life philosophy - he lives to save human and akuma. Looking at how he fail to care about God, Order and stuff, it would be hard to make him change his entire way of thinking just buy kicking him out of Order.
    Yeah, it'd be a huge change for Allen... but I don't think it's entirely impossible. If Allen experiences Noah's memories, which could be very strong, combined with the knowledge that some people he trusted weren't, um, trustworthy, it could really mess him up. Besides, the death of corrupt humans to recreate humanity (which could be what the Noah want) could also be interpreted as "saving the humans".

    What about Crusades? What about all that self-bombing terrorists? What do they fight for?
    There were other reasons for the Crusades, including glory and new land and stuff. As for the suicide bombers... the Exorcists aren't crazy.

    And no, nuns can't wear miniskirts. Not that I'm against it, though.

    I have to agree with Kolox, that religious Order is not religious enough. However, it is not that big of a problem for me, since it doesn't ruin athmosphere of manga.
    Well, Lenalee isn't a nun, technically. =P I guess you guys are right, although I don't want to write it off yet in case things change later...
    ~Digital_Eon~




 

 
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