Thread: Chapter 143 Discussion - Johnny gets owned again.

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

My first exam is over, so I had some time to catch up with manga.

Good, this subforum is being as dead as the rest of StopTazmo...

Yeah, I'm with you here, it should end as fast as possible - no need to prolong it, it's not Bleach. We have already seen everything what we needed, just showing any more pointless akuma-killing by obviously overwhelming generals' strength won't help plot to progress in any way.

For now ending seems pretty clear. Eggs capturing failed (?). What interests me more is what will inspector do to Allen after the battle ends.

It looks like the battle could end in the next chapter with the egg being recaptured or destroyed now that those are really the only two options (unless Hoshino leaves us with a cliffhanger after spending 15 pages with talk and things like that). I'm really interested in seeing how it ends, though. Lulu Bell was interested in bringing Allen back to the Earl; will she succeed in doing that or will Allen get left behind (which seems a little boring to me, since nothing special about him was really revealed here).

I do want to see what Link's mission is, though. That might prolong the battle by taking up a chapter in the middle, but if it means something like Lenalee fighting...

Thats right, he doesn't need to be special if he is there just to reveal info. But he doesn't seem to have anything important to uncover at all, does he?

Maybe he's going to tell Allen to leave the Order or the Inspector that Allen is absolutely innocent... something that would show that he trusts Allen. At first, it seemed like helping Allen access the Ark/Egg area were a sign of that, but apparently it was what the Inspector wanted all along. It'd probably just be some kind of information like that which we don't really care about but will affect the other characters.

Order = Military in every possible way. And for military member to be in a good form is a given (no?).

I meant with the rankings and all - their only attack squad is really the Exorcists. Aside from that, they really are an army. But the Inspector implied that Link would need to be in good form for that job... so what would he be doing? Spying?

Originally Posted by Digi

It looks like the battle could end in the next chapter with the egg being recaptured or destroyed now that those are really the only two options (unless Hoshino leaves us with a cliffhanger after spending 15 pages with talk and things like that). I'm really interested in seeing how it ends, though. Lulu Bell was interested in bringing Allen back to the Earl; will she succeed in doing that or will Allen get left behind (which seems a little boring to me, since nothing special about him was really revealed here).
I do want to see what Link's mission is, though. That might prolong the battle by taking up a chapter in the middle, but if it means something like Lenalee fighting...

Hopefully, no cliffhangers will be created - that would really be a bad style - we had enugh of this in the Arc arc.

I doubt that egg will be destroyed, sonce nobody wants it - Earl needs it to creat Akuma, Order needs it to investigate. So it might be either recaptured or returned to Order. The second seems to be more possible.

For Lulu-chan to take Allen to Earl as well as to capture the egg some extra forces are needed - Generals do clrearly have an upper hand in this battle, normal Akuma are no match for them. So she either needs to start fighting by herself (which is unlikely - she is hardly the fighting type) or to introduce some 3rd level Akuma. As for now I do not see anything that can save you from boredom - Allen won't go to Earls place.

Oi, no Lenalee fighting. It is so unreallinstic that I'd prefer her playing damsel in distress a bit more.

Originally Posted by Digi

Maybe he's going to tell Allen to leave the Order or the Inspector that Allen is absolutely innocent... something that would show that he trusts Allen. At first, it seemed like helping Allen access the Ark/Egg area were a sign of that, but apparently it was what the Inspector wanted all along. It'd probably just be some kind of information like that which we don't really care about but will affect the other characters.

You suggested a good way to continue the story - Allen living Order would be perfect. That would make a lot of people decide what is more important to them - saving humanity and killing friend or abandoning humanity and saving friend. A lot of forced character development = pure win.

I meant with the rankings and all - their only attack squad is really the Exorcists. Aside

Originally Posted by Digi

from that, they really are an army. But the Inspector implied that Link would need to be in good form for that job... so what would he be doing? Spying?

Well...maybe he needs to be in a good form to cook good cakes?

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

Hopefully, no cliffhangers will be created - that would really be a bad style - we had enugh of this in the Arc arc.

I doubt that egg will be destroyed, sonce nobody wants it - Earl needs it to creat Akuma, Order needs it to investigate. So it might be either recaptured or returned to Order. The second seems to be more possible.

It can't be returned since Miranda's time record only temporarily reverses time. The Order HAS to destroy it to keep it out of the hands of the Earl.

For Lulu-chan to take Allen to Earl as well as to capture the egg some extra forces are needed - Generals do clrearly have an upper hand in this battle, normal Akuma are no match for them. So she either needs to start fighting by herself (which is unlikely - she is hardly the fighting type) or to introduce some 3rd level Akuma. As for now I do not see anything that can save you from boredom - Allen won't go to Earls place.

Lulu had the akuma... she was pretty damn close to it. I guess Allen could always get knocked out and she could drag him to the Ark in her water-body or something. She already does seem to be fighting somehow, if not by attacking the Generals. (Allen won't go willingly, you mean? If he gets there and has no way of returning...)

Oi, no Lenalee fighting. It is so unreallinstic that I'd prefer her playing damsel in distress a bit more.

Not if it means something would happen to her. Oh well... Maybe soon... >_> She'd be better than Lavi/Kanda, though.

You suggested a good way to continue the story - Allen living Order would be perfect. That would make a lot of people decide what is more important to them - saving humanity and killing friend or abandoning humanity and saving friend. A lot of forced character development = pure win.

I meant with the rankings and all - their only attack squad is really the Exorcists. Aside

If Allen leaves and he doesn't manage it without others finding out, I don't think there's any chance Lenalee would stay behind (not with the Inspector hanging around). Lavi would probably go after some emo thoughts about Bookman... Krory would probably go if he awoke by then... Miranda might... Kanda *might*... The Generals would probably stay, though, and Chaoji definitely would (he dislikes Allen). Besides, they'd still be fighting the akuma... just without the Order backing them. In fact, they might be forced to confront the Order, too.

...Claymore, anyone? <3

Well...maybe he needs to be in a good form to cook good cakes?

Link's secret mission = baking pies. Awesome.

Originally Posted by Digi

It can't be returned since Miranda's time record only temporarily reverses time. The Order HAS to destroy it to keep it out of the hands of the Earl.

Wait, I thought that right now it is not Miranda who is interfering with eggs transport but those scientific division guys who made some talisman or whatever. Using that they protected Reever, Allen and stoped egg transport. Or am I wrong? I may have missed something...

Originally Posted by Digi

Lulu had the akuma... she was pretty damn close to it. I guess Allen could always get knocked out and she could drag him to the Ark in her water-body or something. She already does seem to be fighting somehow, if not by attacking the Generals. (Allen won't go willingly, you mean? If he gets there and has no way of returning...)

Well, thats true, she always can get Allen, if it is thier primary goal. But right now all thier power is concentrated on transfering the egg and keeping generals busy so that they won't be able to get in the way. So I doubt that they will waste time taking Allen if it will bring to much trouble and will result in loosing the egg.

I meant that there is no way for him to be taken there by force. I do not think that he has any motives to switch sides voluntaryly rigth now.

Originally Posted by Digi

Not if it means something would happen to her. Oh well... Maybe soon... >_> She'd be better than Lavi/Kanda, though.

I'm fine with her participating as long as nothing lame happens. After all it's been a while since she fought.

Originally Posted by Digi

If Allen leaves and he doesn't manage it without others finding out, I don't think there's any chance Lenalee would stay behind (not with the Inspector hanging around). Lavi would probably go after some emo thoughts about Bookman... Krory would probably go if he awoke by then... Miranda might... Kanda *might*... The Generals would probably stay, though, and Chaoji definitely would (he dislikes Allen). Besides, they'd still be fighting the akuma... just without the Order backing them. In fact, they might be forced to confront the Order, too.

...Claymore, anyone? <3

Yeah, I think it may happen in the same way.

And I <3 Claymore. The situation here is a bit different though. It is in key points authors made - in Claymore Organisation was evil to begin with, no good emotions are connected to it and no remorse will be felt when destroying it. Here the situation is different thanks to all happy-hugging athmosphere of earlier manga - even if a group of main characters leaves Order there still will be some good people left behind and there won't be a way to avoid a certain level of sadness about that. If Claymore is about pure hatred and will for a revenge, here things are different. Or, more precisely, might become different (and more difficult too) if Hishino chooses to take this road of story developemnt.

Originally Posted by Digi

Link's secret mission = baking pies. Awesome.

With his current level of personality he doesn't worth more of a task.

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

Wait, I thought that right now it is not Miranda who is interfering with eggs transport but those scientific division guys who made some talisman or whatever. Using that they protected Reever, Allen and stoped egg transport. Or am I wrong? I may have missed something...

It's Miranda's time record that returned the Egg; it was already mostly gone when she used it (so I guess the talisman failed by then). The Generals' only option now is to destroy the Egg (maybe Allen will do it and it'll prove his General-level strength or whatever).

Well, thats true, she always can get Allen, if it is thier primary goal. But right now all thier power is concentrated on transfering the egg and keeping generals busy so that they won't be able to get in the way. So I doubt that they will waste time taking Allen if it will bring to much trouble and will result in loosing the egg.

I meant that there is no way for him to be taken there by force. I do not think that he has any motives to switch sides voluntaryly rigth now.

Seeing as Lulu's in a water form capable of swallowing things right now, I don't think it'd be too hard to grab Allen and retreat quickly. She probably won't go after him now, but what if the Egg is destroyed by the Generals? She'd want her mission to be something of a success.

I'm fine with her participating as long as nothing lame happens. After all it's been a while since she fought.

I don't think she has the option for a power-up yet. Maybe she'll see the end of the fight and not actually fight?

Yeah, I think it may happen in the same way.

And I <3 Claymore. The situation here is a bit different though. It is in key points authors made - in Claymore Organisation was evil to begin with, no good emotions are connected to it and no remorse will be felt when destroying it. Here the situation is different thanks to all happy-hugging athmosphere of earlier manga - even if a group of main characters leaves Order there still will be some good people left behind and there won't be a way to avoid a certain level of sadness about that. If Claymore is about pure hatred and will for a revenge, here things are different. Or, more precisely, might become different (and more difficult too) if Hishino chooses to take this road of story developemnt.

I doubt Allen and his friends would attack the Order intentionally because of their attachment to it, but we can't rule out the possibility of the Order attacking them first (out of worry and fear that the rebel group does have Claymore-like motives). It's possible that the Order will be destroyed as the result of that team leaving because the Noah will attack afterwards, and then we'll have the sadness and depression that would make DGM interesting. Good people still die...

With his current level of personality he doesn't worth more of a task.

Hey, pie-baking is apparently an important thing. =P

Originally Posted by Digital_Eon

It's Miranda's time record that returned the Egg; it was already mostly gone when she used it (so I guess the talisman failed by then). The Generals' only option now is to destroy the Egg (maybe Allen will do it and it'll prove his General-level strength or whatever).

Thanks for correcting me.

Originally Posted by Digital_Eon

Seeing as Lulu's in a water form capable of swallowing things right now, I don't think it'd be too hard to grab Allen and retreat quickly. She probably won't go after him now, but what if the Egg is destroyed by the Generals? She'd want her mission to be something of a success.

Yes, if she failes to capture the egg, then she will deffinitely try to get a least something back - in our case Allen (of father-Earl will cry again ).

Originally Posted by Digital_Eon

I don't think she has the option for a power-up yet. Maybe she'll see the end of the fight and not actually fight?

The only reason (from storys point of view) for her to be there by the end of a figth would be to see her lover being captured by Lulu - it will probably trigger Linalee's developemnt (like what she tried to do - going to Hevlaska to synchronize with innocence).

Originally Posted by Digital_Eon

I doubt Allen and his friends would attack the Order intentionally because of their attachment to it, but we can't rule out the possibility of the Order attacking them first (out of worry and fear that the rebel group does have Claymore-like motives). It's possible that the Order will be destroyed as the result of that team leaving because the Noah will attack afterwards, and then we'll have the sadness and depression that would make DGM interesting. Good people still die...

I didn't mean that it will be Allen who starts the war between rebels and Order, the second option you've given seems way more possible to me. And DGM + Darkness + Sadness = Good.

Originally Posted by Digital_Eon

Hey, pie-baking is apparently an important thing. =P

If it feeds main characeter - for sure.

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

Yes, if she failes to capture the egg, then she will deffinitely try to get a least something back - in our case Allen (of father-Earl will cry again ).

If the Egg is recaptured and nothing else happens, this last arc would feel kinda pointless... so I think it'll be destroyed. Even if she fails to capture Allen, too, she at least has the knowledge that the human controller is out there and perfectly alive.

The only reason (from storys point of view) for her to be there by the end of a figth would be to see her lover being captured by Lulu - it will probably trigger Linalee's developemnt (like what she tried to do - going to Hevlaska to synchronize with innocence).

Exactly~ And Allen could be captured, so it wouldn't be unrealistic... That, or maybe Lenalee could show up in time to get captured/attacked herself. She's still a Noah target (unless Lulu isn't aware of it).

I didn't mean that it will be Allen who starts the war between rebels and Order, the second option you've given seems way more possible to me. And DGM + Darkness + Sadness = Good.

I doubt all the Order staff members are going to make it through the end of the series. Hoshino killed Anita, after all... It wouldn't be unusual to see that happen.

If it feeds main characeter - for sure.

He prefers mitarashidango. I'm worried about the Inspector, though - he bakes cakes - Lenalee's favourite food is cake - that can't be a coincidence! I think he's a stalker. o_O

Originally Posted by Digi

If the Egg is recaptured and nothing else happens, this last arc would feel kinda pointless... so I think it'll be destroyed. Even if she fails to capture Allen, too, she at least has the knowledge that the human controller is out there and perfectly alive.

Agreed, it will strange if Hoshino just let Order have Egg so that they would lose it right away. So yeah, they probably will have it destroyed.

Originally Posted by Digi

Exactly~ And Allen could be captured, so it wouldn't be unrealistic... That, or maybe Lenalee could show up in time to get captured/attacked herself. She's still a Noah target (unless Lulu isn't aware of it).

Lenalee is a perfect target herself, considering she is thought to be a bearer of a Heart by Noah. But it would be annoying to have her kidnapped as it will prolong her role as damsel in distress for quite a long amount of time, make DGM seem like Bleach, stop her possible developement and make a plot quite cheesy. Allen's being captured is way better - it forces Lenelee's development and creates an unusual way of plot development - main hero as a damsel in distress is really something

Originally Posted by Digi

I doubt all the Order staff members are going to make it through the end of the series. Hoshino killed Anita, after all... It wouldn't be unusual to see that happen.

At least Johny need to die.

Originally Posted by Digi

He prefers mitarashidango. I'm worried about the Inspector, though - he bakes cakes - Lenalee's favourite food is cake - that can't be a coincidence! I think he's a stalker. o_O

P-p-p-pedo?!

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

Agreed, it will strange if Hoshino just let Order have Egg so that they would lose it right away. So yeah, they probably will have it destroyed.

Exactly. If Allen gets captured or something else happens that changes his condition/how he's treated, though, that would be a great reason for this fight.

Lenalee is a perfect target herself, considering she is thought to be a bearer of a Heart by Noah. But it would be annoying to have her kidnapped as it will prolong her role as damsel in distress for quite a long amount of time, make DGM seem like Bleach, stop her possible developement and make a plot quite cheesy. Allen's being captured is way better - it forces Lenelee's development and creates an unusual way of plot development - main hero as a damsel in distress is really something

She could always get kidnapped with her Innocence and start fighting, or be captured with Allen and find a way for both of them to escape. I don't think we'll see an arc where a completely helpless Lenalee is captured and needs Allen to rescue her - we had two chapters of that with Jasdevi and I got the impression it was intended to show her trust in him more than show how completely helpless she is. Having the same thing again wouldn't be as romantic...

At least Johny need to die.

Maybe he'll get killed by Tapp next chapter. I actually don't want any of the others to die... Reever is too badass... Komui is just too awesome... and I think Bak needs to live until the end; he has the aura of "second-best" around him and would probably be a good substitute leader if anything happens to Komui. The fact that his actions in recent chapters have been similar to Lenalee's brother makes me wonder if Komui isn't doomed after all.

P-p-p-pedo?!

Well, he's creepy, right? xD Although, as Cross said, Lenalee's grown up now... and now there's a good reason for Allen to dislike the Inspector...

Originally Posted by Digital_Eon

Exactly. If Allen gets captured or something else happens that changes his condition/how he's treated, though, that would be a great reason for this fight.

Yeah, I think this is the case.

She could always get kidnapped with her Innocence and start fighting, or be captured with Allen and find a way for both of them to escape. I don't think we'll see an arc where a completely helpless Lenalee is captured and needs Allen to rescue her - we had two chapters of that with Jasdevi and I got the impression it was intended to show her trust in him more than show how completely helpless she is. Having the same thing again wouldn't be as romantic...

Indeed. Nobody wants to see the same thing repeated within just 30 chapters. Both of them being captured is a possible option, but for that fight will have to last for quite some time - Lenalee has to get away of that room she is locked in, go to Hevlaske, synchronize with her innocence, reach the Arc, transfer ito the battlefield, fight for some time and then both of them would be captured. The scenary where she reaches the scene just to witness the very end of a fight with Allen being captured seems more possible.

Maybe he'll get killed by Tapp next chapter. I actually don't want any of the others to die... Reever is too badass... Komui is just too awesome... and I think Bak needs to live until the end; he has the aura of "second-best" around him and would probably be a good substitute leader if anything happens to Komui. The fact that his actions in recent chapters have been similar to Lenalee's brother makes me wonder if Komui isn't doomed after all.

Cool characters are to be killed for the sake of plot and emotion developemnt. Sadly.

Well, he's creepy, right? xD Although, as Cross said, Lenalee's grown up now... and now there's a good reason for Allen to dislike the Inspector...

Even putting that aside Allen already has plenty of a reason to. He actually doesn't even seem to understand the reason behind his arrest.