Thread: Chapter 137 Discussion

Originally Posted by Kolox

It's a hobby probably - baking cakes is good for stress - I know it from my own experience.

Then what about Link's pie?

He probably was 14th or associated with him - and I think Allen can read it because of the eye and knowledge he had.

He said that Mana taught him those symbols when he was little - it was their secret language or something like that. Obviously, he could read it before he got the eye.

Naah, I am starting to think Hoshino doesn't grasp the idea of Gray at all - anything I could call gray here is "Getting to good results by leaving bodies behind". From all the perspective, if I was on Order side I would think Cross is evil Seriously, he acts really suspicious.

Gray just means "not incredibly good, but not incredibly bad". So far, we know both sides do bad things for what they believe are the right reasons, but we don't know their motives enough to be able to tell if they're right or not.

I think she was opening up before more - she opened up first to Lavi, remember ? Also for something she hates a lot she believes in ideals of Order to be sincere, but still can't forgive some methods. Quite childish.

When did she open up to Lavi? He saw her crying, and then she was a bit friendly to him like she is to everyone.

Lenalee believes in fighting for her friends, and defending them. It isn't like she really has a choice to fight with the Order, anyway. Given the option of leaving (with the support of Komui), I'm sure she'd do exactly that.

Oh, that was quite realistic. The best part being that Emiya Shirou was actually at fault of her misery - since she accepted that she is a just a trash, she was quite resistant to pain, but when Shirou came he gave her hope for happiness. She could endure it as long as she knew she could go to his home next day..but waiting for it was also very painful. She got freaking mad in 3rd route, thinking that Tohsaka Rin was trying to steal Emiya Shirou from her... to the extend she was trying to kill both Rin and Shirou, for betraying her hopes...she broked. The way she killed Gilgamesh, Matou Shinji, Berserker or Kotomine Kirei proves it....

If you're that mindfucked, you don't just have hope for happiness and be able to innocently sit by and wait - but anyway, I also mean that the situation she was in is incredibly unrealistic when you add the Holy Grail thing in, and I don't see how her situation without that is much worse than Lenalee's (instead of being violated, she was forced to fight and face death).

1# Remind me who is Link ? The other guy ? I don't see why it shouldn't be the same
2# He was shown those symbols, but he didn't knew how to play them. And his eye was surely a factor - it changed, didn't it ?
3# They are all black and white - even Malcolm isn't bad, only has bad looks (and seriously, people who make sweets can't be completely bad )
4# Wasn't she friendly to Allen too ? She didn't told him anything, anything about Rinali he learnt from others...and Rinali never said anything bad about Order at all
5# Worse, far worse. Because she was grown up as a trash and was supposed to be used as trash at the end (for creating Holy Grail - you need a human sacriface - Sakura was supposed to be one). Remember that her parents didn't die, they sold her. She was also kept in basement with those worms so they would penetrate her body bringing lots of pain. The only way she could resist is to shut her feelings - well, she would be fine if she didn't met Emiya. Because if you don't know what's happiness, you don't know what's sadness too, but Shirou giving her some happiness brought also a lot of misery, because he gave her hope that her life might have been different.

Also she was mindfucked to the extend that she accepted anything done to her - she was like lifeless doll.

I have to read the new translation-scanlation first....but someone on MS suggested a new theory (which I find is amusing):

Allen's father was the 14th Noah (xDDDD somehow ridiculous but...I can't help thinking that there might be something)

Originally Posted by Kolox

1# Remind me who is Link ? The other guy ? I don't see why it shouldn't be the same
2# He was shown those symbols, but he didn't knew how to play them. And his eye was surely a factor - it changed, didn't it ?
3# They are all black and white - even Malcolm isn't bad, only has bad looks (and seriously, people who make sweets can't be completely bad )
4# Wasn't she friendly to Allen too ? She didn't told him anything, anything about Rinali he learnt from others...and Rinali never said anything bad about Order at all
5# Worse, far worse. Because she was grown up as a trash and was supposed to be used as trash at the end (for creating Holy Grail - you need a human sacriface - Sakura was supposed to be one). Remember that her parents didn't die, they sold her. She was also kept in basement with those worms so they would penetrate her body bringing lots of pain. The only way she could resist is to shut her feelings - well, she would be fine if she didn't met Emiya. Because if you don't know what's happiness, you don't know what's sadness too, but Shirou giving her some happiness brought also a lot of misery, because he gave her hope that her life might have been different.

Also she was mindfucked to the extend that she accepted anything done to her - she was like lifeless doll.

1) Link = weird hair guy who gave Allen the pie and then followed him around.
2) He didn't know how to play them because he doesn't know how to play a piano. He can definitely READ the symbols. As for his eye, it might have some other significance, but I doubt it has to do with the symbols.
3) Malcolm definitely has bad points, Kolox. You just don't want to see the "gray" because it would make DGM a better manga than you think it is!
4) She was friendly to Allen, yes, and then she began to open up to him. Allen learned about Lenalee from what she told him - she talked about her past, about her dreams, things like that. And no, she hasn't said anything bad about the Order, but telling others about the bad things they've done would be revealing more than she seems willing to do (although I'd think that revealing that they wouldn't let her die, and then about the Fallen, would be pretty bad things).
5) Personally, I think it'd be better to be sold than to see my parents brutally murdered, but okay... and as for the pain, that falls under the Holy Grail thing of unrealistic events. Besides, if she's in such a bad position, how could she be happy at all? It took time for LENALEE to open up to one person and, as you said, she went through less than that.

1) What about him ?
2) I think it has - you can't disprove that nor I can disprove yours.
3) Like everyone, doesn't make him EVIL !! There is grayness but is little exploited - honestly, it's not so hard,
4) I think most about Rinali was said when they both where in beds - I don't remeber her opening up.
5) I think Sakura needed more time - was sold when she was 4 and started open up when she was 16. And she couldn't have friends because of her 'brother'. Shinji was friends with Emiya so that's how she met him and could talk with him.

..who said that people who make sweets can't be completely bad?
good or bad is relative in here..while noah said that the orders are bad and vice versa,allen standing in the middle..thus he is gray??
hey read the newest translation and you'll see that malcolm is bad.
well the symbols are the characters THEY(allen and mana)made up long ago so there's no need for the eye to read that symbols.

Forgive me for what I must do! (This isn't as funny as I'd hoped. *cry?*)

He was a painter, that's why ;p

Finally caught up with this.

It seems my thought of Allen and the Earl being somewhat related wasn't so off and that Inspector (Hitler dude)had reinforced the thoughts you guys had earlier about the whole Good vs Evil thing in this conflict.

I wonder what he did to Lenalee though, must have been fucked up.

and Road(or someone who looks like her) is back for the win (shoutouts also for the others who came back)

Gray in Allen's case doesn't stand because he has the Akuma and the Innocence inside him. I took it mucho more literal. And about bad people baking cookies and stuff, remember that witch and Handsel and Gretel, that she gave them sweets so they would get fat and eat them. That's been evil to me.

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Tamiel -