Thread: Thoughts on Character Development

Originally Posted by Kolox

See, you wrote my name in capital letters

Hey, I never wrote that!

Originally Posted by stained_black

So what you're saying, is basically the reason why we (the people who disagree with you) is saying that Linalee is not *put anything that concerns a character here* is because the changes are so small that we didn't notice them.

I don't think so... I meant that people say that Lenalee is not a main character because she didn't have that role, earlier in the books. So they're technically kinda right. They're only wrong if they insist that this is STILL true.

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

Looks like I'll have to reread DGM to agree or disagree and to post something adequate here - since I pretty much forgot a lot and it won't be satisfying to post something like "It was so if i recall correctly" after you've done so much work. But for that I'll need to redownload it all.... Anyways, I won't be able to answer untill friday or saturday. Sorry about that.

Awww. xD I didn't do any work, actually - I was skimming through earlier volumes (a bit of 1 and 2, and some of 3) and saw Lenalee with the tea, and was like "holy crap! She's boring!". Everything else was from memory... so if I'm wrong, that's why. If I'm right, I'm just that much more of a loser. ^_^;;

For now I've found only one inaccuracy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi
He [Allen] had no real ambition.

From the very first volume his main goal was stayted - to save Akuma and to save people. Perhaps he was not too passionate about this. But his main ambition was always there.

Yeah, I kind of exaggerated there. He did have ambition, but he didn't quite have the same goal that he does now. It wasn't until volume 9 that he thought of his "left hand for the akuma, right hand for the humans" thing, and defined it. It was sort of vague - yes, he wanted to save the akuma, but if he was so clear about it, why didn't anyone comment until after he got the Innocence upgrade? That's when he said that saving the akuma was equally, or more important than saving the humans.

No, from how i see it Digi is saying that changes in Allen's and Linalee's characters are very huge - "In summary, Allen and Lenalee have both changed dramatically", not "In summary, Allen and Linalee have both changed so little it can't be seen without fucken electron microscope".

Yeah. ^_^;; I think the reason we haven't seen it is just because no one ever thinks about the changes, since they're not the kind that most people think of when a person changes (such as going from good to evil, or vice versa). Hm, I guess I'll have to spend some of my excess time thinking about that... xD

Originally Posted by Digital_Eon

Hey, I never wrote that!

Your denying the fact that you ,for some reasons, wrote my name in capital letters ? And now you seem to have even more agression than before ;p

I always disliked the Allen never had any ambitions - really, he didn't - he had purpose, but ambitious aren't the same thing. I just never felt that he deployed all his heart to defeat Akuma -it was more like something normal to him, with which I would be cool if he wasn't saying something other.

Aim, yes. Ambitious ? Not really...

Just that I never wrote anything after your name~ I did write your name, though.

I agree with that, Kolox. Allen never really showed any motivation to defeat the akuma beyond his normal, near-emotionless expressions. Sure, we know he wanted to kill the akuma, but it wasn't until recently that he actually clarified his goal and acted ambitious. So he only defeated one akuma since then - he's still taken a bigger step towards saving the akuma (as opposed to just the humans, by killing akuma) than he ever did in the past.

Care to explain the difference between "goal" and "ambition" here? Also

Originally Posted by Digi

Allen never really showed any motivation to defeat the akuma beyond his normal, near-emotionless expressions.

He doesn't need to state his goal in passionate Ichigo-like way for us to fully understand it. We knew his entire life philosophy from the very begining.

Originally Posted by Digi

Sure, we know he wanted to kill the akuma, but it wasn't until recently that he actually clarified his goal and acted ambitious.

What kind of new goal that was not clarified until recently is that? Am I forgetting something?

Originally Posted by Digi

So he only defeated one akuma since then - he's still taken a bigger step towards saving the akuma (as opposed to just the humans, by killing akuma) than he ever did in the past.

What is that great step that was made just recently? To save Akuma you just have to kill it - by that you end its' suffering. Allen was doing that from 1st chapter.

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

Care to explain the difference between "goal" and "ambition" here? Also

Okay, I see "goal" as what he wants to achieve - that is, saving everything - and "ambition" as the amount of energy he puts into working towards that goal, or how much he acts like he wants it.

He doesn't need to state his goal in passionate Ichigo-like way for us to fully understand it. We knew his entire life philosophy from the very begining.

Well, and he's being passionate about it now, so that's different. ^_^

What kind of new goal that was not clarified until recently is that? Am I forgetting something?

That saving the akuma was just as important as saving the humans. Sure, he talked about saving them when he killed them, but there was more emphasis on the human aspect.

What is that great step that was made just recently? To save Akuma you just have to kill it - by that you end its' suffering. Allen was doing that from 1st chapter.

...yeah, but in his mind... well, and who knows what his sword can do. Maybe he'll be able to convert it or something weird like that.

Originally Posted by Digi

Okay, I see "goal" as what he wants to achieve - that is, saving everything - and "ambition" as the amount of energy he puts into working towards that goal, or how much he acts like he wants it.

Thanks for explanation.

Originally Posted by Digi

Well, and he's being passionate about it now, so that's different. ^_^

The reason for him being more emotional may be that now he is responsible not only for his own life, but for his friends (which he never had before) as well. Also, enemies are way more powerful too. I'm not sure if we have character development here or not.

Originally Posted by Digi

That saving the akuma was just as important as saving the humans. Sure, he talked about saving them when he killed them, but there was more emphasis on the human aspect.

He is focused more on human aspect now simply because he is now fighting with them and is forced to end thier lifes. After all, Noahs are human tehnically. When he fights akuma he thinks about saving akuma, when he fights human he is thinking about saving human. It makes sense, no development here, just a change of situation.

Edit: It seems that I misunderstood you comment... Are you saying that he was focused more on saving human before then now?

Originally Posted by Digi

...yeah, but in his mind... well, and who knows what his sword can do. Maybe he'll be able to convert it or something weird like that.

HIs power up =/= mental change. His philosophy never changed after he got his sword. That was just a weapon for him to be able to save not only Akuma, but human as well.

Originally Posted by reinard-fox

The reason for him being more emotional may be that now he is responsible not only for his own life, but for his friends (which he never had before) as well. Also, enemies are way more powerful too. I'm not sure if we have character development here or not.

Possibly, but he still had friends for the first six volumes. Besides, friends have nothing do with the amount of passion he has for killing things, and neither do stronger enemies. That's a change he made on his own by inner exploration or whatever you call it.

He is focused more on human aspect now simply because he is now fighting with them and is forced to end thier lifes. After all, Noahs are human tehnically. When he fights akuma he thinks about saving akuma, when he fights human he is thinking about saving human. It makes sense, no development here, just a change of situation.

Edit: It seems that I misunderstood you comment... Are you saying that he was focused more on saving human before then now?

I think so... Allen did talk about saving the akuma, but it just didn't have the passion it does now - I guess he just learned that this is his LIFE GOAL, and nothing else (as opposed to just spending time killing things). And oddly enough, he's still thinking of the akuma when fighting humans. There's more emphasis on the akuma being a big part of his life now.

HIs power up =/= mental change. His philosophy never changed after he got his sword. That was just a weapon for him to be able to save not only Akuma, but human as well.

Ah, sorry, two different things. In his mind, he's more dedicated to killing akuma now. As for his sword - new topic - maybe that will help him with his non-Noah-related fights somehow.

Looks like you were right, so I have nothing to say Sorry for being so late, was busy with university.

It's okay~ God, I feel like such a fangirl now. Not to mention that I've been thinking of nothing but the next chapter all afternoon - character development!

Allen development in himself that when it comes to saving Rinali he remembers that he had an ability with which he could help others..but no one will blame him, right - since Allen will just go emo after this and everyone will say That's not true, you were great - while he deserves to be hit in face and thrown to river..