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  1. #1
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Default Exorcists are not human

    Said Noah. The funny and suspicious thing behind it is that Church says the same. Of course, we can just say that normal people are simply afraid of exorcists power and that's why they can't treat exsorcists equally ot themselves, but.

    Who are exorcists? Normal people, who have recieved thier special power from God, who they claim to fight for. Different power, different weapon, different level of synchronisation. Those, who reach 100% become super-powerful and...almost complitely lose thier human form. Crowley and Allen looked like monsters in thier past battles; Crowley several times made Jasdevi call him monster. Jasdevi even says (chapter 109) that they (exorcists) are demons. And that those innocence are monsters.

    Another line that surprised me was Allens "I will never let you people escape from the darkness". It is ratetherstrange, looking at how exorcists are supposed to bring light and help people escape from evil. But he won't help noah escape from darkness. Strange.

    So - are exorcists human?

  2. #2
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    I think that depends on what they were originally. To me, being an Exorcist is just like having any other occupation - like how Komui is the Chief Monitor, or how we have doctors and ambulance drivers and whatnot. In most cases, it doesn't change what the person IS.

    Crowley is definitely an exception... I don't know what's up with him.

    The one thing I'm not sure of is whether Exorcists must be human in order to use Innocence. Certain recent chapters have made me wonder what's up with Rabi and Bookman (I think the 49th name means Rabi is the 49th Bookman... and if that's true, how could they be human? Humans have been around for way more than a few generations!), and we already have seen that Hevlaska is VERY unusual.

    So maybe... maybe it's that the parasitic Innocence are the ones that change people? We've seen three so far, and all have done strange things to their users. Bak even said that it makes them into weapons when he was talking to Allen, although did say that Allen was still completely human (but, umm, he just died and came back to life...?).

    As for the line about darkness, that could just mean that Allen was being a jackass, but anyway. ^^;;

    It's hard to say. I guess my concluding thoughts are that Accomodators do not necessarily need to be human, and it's possible that the parasitic Innocences are nastier than we were originally led to believe and do tend to lend the user an inhuman quality. However, there's probably a lot we don't know.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  3. #3
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    I think that depends on what they were originally. To me, being an Exorcist is just like having any other occupation - like how Komui is the Chief Monitor, or how we have doctors and ambulance drivers and whatnot. In most cases, it doesn't change what the person IS.
    I though that being exorcist = having innocence. Komui is out of game here. He just works for Black Church, nothing more.

    Crowley is definitely an exception... I don't know what's up with him.
    He is parasite type, just like Allen. Now, maybe being parasite type = being special, since you have much more contact with your innocence then other types.

    The one thing I'm not sure of is whether Exorcists must be human in order to use Innocence.
    Iccocence was given by God to human. So you surely should be one to recieve it. Being a dog won't do. Or panda (in case of bookman).
    Certain recent chapters have made me wonder what's up with Rabi and Bookman (I think the 49th name means Rabi is the 49th Bookman... and if that's true, how could they be human? Humans have been around for way more than a few generations!), and we already have seen that Hevlaska is VERY unusual.
    According to byble, humans were around around 7000 years (if i remember correctly), which is not that much. Also we do not know when sistem of bookmen was established. Though you maybe right - maybe thier innocence gives them ability to somehow manipulate wiht time?

    And thanks for reminding me about Hevlaska. It was once human, wasn't it?

    So maybe... maybe it's that the parasitic Innocence are the ones that change people? We've seen three so far, and all have done strange things to their users. Bak even said that it makes them into weapons when he was talking to Allen, although did say that Allen was still completely human (but, umm, he just died and came back to life...?).
    This may be true. I think i has something to do with the level of synchronisation - i remember reading that parasytic innocence allows higher level of synchronisation => themore you synchronise with innocence the less human you become?
    As for the line about darkness, that could just mean that Allen was being a jackass, but anyway. ^^;;
    Well, i doubt.

  4. #4
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    I though that being exorcist = having innocence. Komui is out of game here. He just works for Black Church, nothing more.
    I meant that it's just an occupation. The Exorcists live their lives as Exorcists; they're not Exorcists who also work in a general store or something. It's their job.

    He is parasite type, just like Allen. Now, maybe being parasite type = being special, since you have much more contact with your innocence then other types.
    Yeah, I talked about that later. Digi and her bad thought processes.

    Iccocence was given by God to human. So you surely should be one to recieve it. Being a dog won't do. Or panda (in case of bookman).
    Supposedly. It doesn't explain what's up with the Bookman pair and Hevlaska, since something is very odd about Hevlaska. Alternately, they could be special kind of human like the Noah... who started off as human and ended up as something else?

    According to byble, humans were around around 7000 years (if i remember correctly), which is not that much. Also we do not know when sistem of bookmen was established. Though you maybe right - maybe thier innocence gives them ability to somehow manipulate wiht time?
    Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years... but even so, 49 generations is still way less than 7000 years. It's logical to think that if Bookmen are recording history, they've been around for a long, long time (at least as old as writing). As for time, I doubt it; that's Miranda's Innocence, and neither Rabi nor Bookman have shown any evidence that their Innocences deal with time as well. Also, Bookman said they were aligning themselves with the church, but are meant to remain neutral. It's possible that not all Bookman are/were users of Innocence (especially if they came from before a time when Innocence existed).

    And thanks for reminding me about Hevlaska. It was once human, wasn't it?
    We have no idea. She doesn't look like a human, though.

    This may be true. I think i has something to do with the level of synchronisation - i remember reading that parasytic innocence allows higher level of synchronisation => themore you synchronise with innocence the less human you become?
    Possible, but... if that's the case, why is Rinari's max synchro level higher than Allen's? (86% to 83%) If this was unusual, I'd expect someone to comment on it.

    Okay, Bak says:

    *The equipment-types are difficult to be mastered because of their powerful strength, so they must be altered into weapons. The new shape restrains the power.
    *Parasitic types synchronize with the "raw, unaltered form of Innocence" which means that they have to restrain that power themselves - so they are the weapons.

    And then he went on to tell Allen that he's still a human. Riiiiight...

    Still doesn't explain what the hell happened to Rinari and her Innocence, and why she didn't die from overusing it when it's supposedly too much power for her to handle (oh, and, um, she should have drowned).

    Well, i doubt.
    Yeah, maybe. That line is the subject of serious debate.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  5. #5
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    I meant that it's just an occupation. The Exorcists live their lives as Exorcists; they're not Exorcists who also work in a general store or something. It's their job.
    Yeah, it'sa thier job. But while it won't change the character of person, it may change his right to be called human.

    Supposedly. It doesn't explain what's up with the Bookman pair and Hevlaska, since something is very odd about Hevlaska. Alternately, they could be special kind of human like the Noah... who started off as human and ended up as something else?
    Noah are human who are possed by some kind of spirit - which was for example killed in Tiki by Allen, turning Tiki into human. Noah have ability to destroy innocence - which is similar to Allen's ability to destroy noah. We can easily say that this two things - innocence and noah - are very similar. So i would say that Hevlaska started as human and ended as....it.

    So yeah, exorcists are, like Noah, special human. But Noah are not human anymore, are they?

    Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years...
    This is scientific info, i was talking about the one from bible, which should be used when talking about DGM's dates.
    but even so, 49 generations is still way less than 7000 years. It's logical to think that if Bookmen are recording history, they've been around for a long, long time (at least as old as writing). As for time, I doubt it; that's Miranda's Innocence, and neither Rabi nor Bookman have shown any evidence that their Innocences deal with time as well. Also, Bookman said they were aligning themselves with the church, but are meant to remain neutral. It's possible that not all Bookman are/were users of Innocence (especially if they came from before a time when Innocence existed).
    You are right. I actually have no explanation to why there were only 48 bookmans....Maybe just Hoshino's problems with numbers?

    Possible, but... if that's the case, why is Rinari's max synchro level higher than Allen's? (86% to 83%) If this was unusual, I'd expect someone to comment on it.
    Allen is past 100 now, isn't he?

    Okay, Bak says:

    *The equipment-types are difficult to be mastered because of their powerful strength, so they must be altered into weapons. The new shape restrains the power.
    *Parasitic types synchronize with the "raw, unaltered form of Innocence" which means that they have to restrain that power themselves - so they are the weapons.

    And then he went on to tell Allen that he's still a human. Riiiiight...

    Still doesn't explain what the hell happened to Rinari and her Innocence, and why she didn't die from overusing it when it's supposedly too much power for her to handle (oh, and, um, she should have drowned).
    We thought that she may have heart, as i recall. Rabi said that too, BTW.


    Yeah, maybe. That line is the subject of serious debate.
    And the dabate that we already went through a couple of times - who really works with God?

  6. #6
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Yeah, it'sa thier job. But while it won't change the character of person, it may change his right to be called human.
    Possibly, but that doesn't seem to be the case for most people.

    Noah are human who are possed by some kind of spirit - which was for example killed in Tiki by Allen, turning Tiki into human. Noah have ability to destroy innocence - which is similar to Allen's ability to destroy noah. We can easily say that this two things - innocence and noah - are very similar. So i would say that Hevlaska started as human and ended as....it.

    So yeah, exorcists are, like Noah, special human. But Noah are not human anymore, are they?
    It's genetics, isn't it? The Noah genes awaken some kind of power inside them... at least, that's what I understood it to be. Of course, it doesn't look like it takes a lot to destroy Innocence; Tiki just crushed it in his hand (the raw form, that is). Innocence and Noah are very similar, though.

    Still, the Noah are considered human. Road may be an exception, but...

    This is scientific info, i was talking about the one from bible, which should be used when talking about DGM's dates.
    Okay... but still, 49 generations is not 7000 years.

    You are right. I actually have no explanation to why there were only 48 bookmans....Maybe just Hoshino's problems with numbers?
    People think it meant that Rabi is his 49th name, but that doesn't make sense in the context. Maybe the Bookman just don't have normal lifespans and therefore do not need to create a new one for a long period of time.

    Allen is past 100 now, isn't he?
    He's at 110 now, but he was still at 83 with the Crowned Clown.

    We thought that she may have heart, as i recall. Rabi said that too, BTW.
    Rabi noticed that Rinari and Allen are BOTH exceptions. Therefore, it'd be unlikely that one had the Heart and not the other. He seemed to conclude that there was some other explanation and that neither had the Heart after all.

    And the dabate that we already went through a couple of times - who really works with God?
    Exactly. =D Oh, those were good debates.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  7. #7
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    Possibly, but that doesn't seem to be the case for most people.
    It seems to be the case to those with parasitic type or for anyone with high rate of synchronisation. To prove the last statement we need to see general's full release.

    It's genetics, isn't it? The Noah genes awaken some kind of power inside them... at least, that's what I understood it to be
    .

    Something like that. Allen destroyed those genes and Noah's power then?

    Still, the Noah are considered human. Road may be an exception, but...
    Well...then very, very special human.

    Okay... but still, 49 generations is not 7000 years.
    Yeah.

    People think it meant that Rabi is his 49th name, but that doesn't make sense in the context. Maybe the Bookman just don't have normal lifespans and therefore do not need to create a new one for a long period of time.
    Maybe. No info at all on this matter.

    He's at 110 now, but he was still at 83 with the Crowned Clown.
    Its acually strange - 110%..... Besides - 83 is not that different from 86.

    Rabi noticed that Rinari and Allen are BOTH exceptions. Therefore, it'd be unlikely that one had the Heart and not the other. He seemed to conclude that there was some other explanation and that neither had the Heart after all.
    Maybe. Though it can be said that Allen has an entirely different form of inocence, that allows better synchronization, so he doesn't need to be heart to reach higher percantage synchronization.

  8. #8
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    It seems to be the case to those with parasitic type or for anyone with high rate of synchronisation. To prove the last statement we need to see general's full release.
    Possibly. An interesting thing to note is that the Generals include equipment-types, at least, so obviously something's up with that.

    Something like that. Allen destroyed those genes and Noah's power then?
    I guess? Maybe he just destroyed the effects...?

    Its acually strange - 110%..... Besides - 83 is not that different from 86.
    Not sure what that percent is for, then. -___-;; It's still a point that Rinari has a higher rate of synchronization than Allen does, despite the fact that... she probably shouldn't...?

    Maybe. Though it can be said that Allen has an entirely different form of inocence, that allows better synchronization, so he doesn't need to be heart to reach higher percantage synchronization.
    That's true, but then why wouldn't we have heard of other Innocences acting on their own to save the Accomodator's life? There are at least five other people who should be in the same position, if it's just a matter of synchronization. I guess we could always go with the two-pieces-of-Heart theory to explain it all nicely...
    ~Digital_Eon~




  9. #9
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    Possibly. An interesting thing to note is that the Generals include equipment-types, at least, so obviously something's up with that.
    That means that equipment type can be highly synchronized too.

    I guess? Maybe he just destroyed the effects...?
    Maybe. There was no further explanation to that.

    Not sure what that percent is for, then. -___-;;
    Same here.
    It's still a point that Rinari has a higher rate of synchronization than Allen does, despite the fact that... she probably shouldn't...?
    See first part of my post.

    That's true, but then why wouldn't we have heard of other Innocences acting on their own to save the Accomodator's life? There are at least five other people who should be in the same position, if it's just a matter of synchronization. I guess we could always go with the two-pieces-of-Heart theory to explain it all nicely...
    It could have worked out if Crowley didn't interfer - his innocence was behaving strangly too. What's that - inoocece went out of users body together with his soul. WTH?!

  10. #10
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    That means that equipment type can be highly synchronized too.
    We have yet to see someone with an equipment type who has become less human because of their Innocence, unless Hevlaska is that kind of person.

    skip some unnecessary things to respond to...

    It could have worked out if Crowley didn't interfer - his innocence was behaving strangly too. What's that - inoocece went out of users body together with his soul. WTH?!
    Who knows what that is. I suspect that this is a different example - that was another manifestation of Crowley's Innocence, but he was still controlling it. Allen and Rinari had NO control over their Innocence when it saved them numerous times. Presumably, if Crowley didn't want to fight, he didn't have to. The others didn't have that choice.
    ~Digital_Eon~




 

 
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