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  1. #11
    Purple Filth is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    The issue that's up for debate is whether an Exorcist has to be human. Having an Innocence won't make a human something else, but the original nature of some Exorcists has been called into question. I doubt Road wouldn't recognize that Rinari is originally a human, since she still undoubtedly is unless there's something else that relates to her Innocence. I don't see why she'd think that Exorcists are any more special than regular humans, after all.

    And I understand why she mentioned Rinari's name - to enrage Allen. The question is why use human when referring to Chaozi.

    ...I just want to see her with Innocence again. >_> Damn it. Revive your nakama or something after they all get killed...
    Because he's human.

    We know you don't like Chaozi so your hate is getting old.

    Nice chapter and i wait for the next to see Allen's decision (unless some Deus Ex Machina happens).

  2. #12
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    I'll stop openly hating Chaozi, in that case.

    I've heard people think that Cross is going to show up and save everyone. Sadly, this seems possible. It would be great to just see a normal fight between Allen and Rabi, though.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  3. #13
    Purple Filth is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    I'll stop openly hating Chaozi, in that case.

    I've heard people think that Cross is going to show up and save everyone. Sadly, this seems possible. It would be great to just see a normal fight between Allen and Rabi, though.
    It wasn't meant to be offensive but if it was i'm sorry

    Cross is exactly who i thought as well hence that statement.

    I would love to see that fight as well, but it will depend on Allen (maybe Rinari and Rabi also).
    Last edited by Purple Filth; 06-02-2007 at 12:31 PM.

  4. #14
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    I have a hard time believing that Cross is there - where would he be? The Ark is being destroyed and there isn't a lot of space left to hide in. Also, it was implied that he was in the Ark when the Noah were walking through, right before the others got sucked in. Wouldn't he be with them?

    Allen definitely COULD fight. There's no way of saving Rabi and he needs to protect Rinari. On the other hand, will Hoshino-sensei see that and write it in?
    ~Digital_Eon~




  5. #15
    Sunlily is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I'm glad you mentioned that DE. I've been trying to explain that point to some members on another forum, but they can't quite seem to grasp that idear. <_<
    I think Cross showing up in the Ark would be a pretty big contradiction somewhere along the line. All in all this was a pretty good chapter. Curious as to how Allen is going to handle this one without sending Lavi to his doom. Or in limbo with Kanda and Krory.



    returns to the shadows to lurk

  6. #16
    Purple Filth is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlily View Post
    I'm glad you mentioned that DE. I've been trying to explain that point to some members on another forum, but they can't quite seem to grasp that idear. <_<
    I think Cross showing up in the Ark would be a pretty big contradiction somewhere along the line. All in all this was a pretty good chapter. Curious as to how Allen is going to handle this one without sending Lavi to his doom. Or in limbo with Kanda and Krory.

    returns to the shadows to lurk
    As said before thats why i placed that Cross situation as a Deus Ex Machina

    Definition:
    Deus Ex Machina describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot.
    Last edited by Purple Filth; 06-02-2007 at 02:13 PM.

  7. #17
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    So, in summary, it would be a disaster for the plot if Hoshino-sensei introduced Cross as the saviour, and we really hope she doesn't do that. Okay.

    In that case, is anyone else hoping for Allen to kill Rabi and not feel terrible about it?
    ~Digital_Eon~




  8. #18
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    That's true; Road and Rabi are kind of similar in that sense. She seems to know what he's thinking, and what he should be thinking, but also seems to have those kinds of views herself. She cares about Tiki, but it's also her DUTY to kill the Exorcists.
    She is killing exorcists not because it's duty, but because it is a) fun b) when she is protecting or geting revenge for her family members. She said that herself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    I think she might be understanding what Rabi is going through - overattachment to her friends that she shouldn't be feeling, especially since they will probably die anyway (the Noah were described in one chapter as "sacrifices").
    Of course Rabi lost to Road. xD
    I think that you are right about similarity between Road and Rabi to some extent. Also, her attack seem to be based on understanding enemies emotions, which shows how well she knows who bookmen are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    The one thing I think is interesting is that at one part, Road refers to Rinari and Chaozi as "Rinari and the human". I mean, it's not unreasonable to think that she doesn't know Chaozi's name, but why "the human"? Are the Exorcists not supposed to be humans or something?
    Exactly. Severa;l times already noahs refered to exorcists as to "monsters". And it doesn't seem to be unreasonable, looking at how they look when high level synchronisation is reached - Lenalee, Allen and Crowley were not that much of human in thier last fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    (Which is an interesting point... Road knows what Rabi was thinking when he realized that Rinari and Allen were both "exceptions" in terms of Innocence. Perhaps she knows more than he does, or maybe I'm reading too much into it - although saying "that guy" or "your friends" could have worked just as well.)
    Road is the oldest Noah, isn't she? It's natural for her to know a lot about Heart and about bookmans - so she can understand Rabi well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlily
    I think Cross showing up in the Ark would be a pretty big contradiction somewhere along the line.
    Agreed about Cross. Besids, it would be lame if he showed up just now and saved everyone. It would break character developments for both Allen and Rabi, which I would hate if that happenes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    In that case, is anyone else hoping for Allen to kill Rabi and not feel terrible about it?
    Rabi's death would make around zero or mabe -10 points of sense to me. The whole Road's attack and making suffer this is only for the sake of development - Rabi should break that Bookmanish thing inside him and return to being Comrade. If he succeedes, Road is defeted.

  9. #19
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    She is killing exorcists not because it's duty, but because it is a) fun b) when she is protecting or geting revenge for her family members. She said that herself.
    It is her duty. She said that the Noah feel obliged to kill Exorcists because of the Noah genetics or something... but the main point is that Road is close to her friends and family (and possibly to some of the Exorcists when she shouldn't be.

    I think that you are right about similarity between Road and Rabi to some extent. Also, her attack seem to be based on understanding enemies emotions, which shows how well she knows who bookmen are.
    That's true; she manipulates people using emotions. She's doing it with Allen, and his desire to protect others (especially Rinari), but she herself knows how it feels to lose someone close to you, and doesn't like being in that position. So why couldn't she understand how much it hurts Rabi to make that choice?

    Exactly. Severa;l times already noahs refered to exorcists as to "monsters". And it doesn't seem to be unreasonable, looking at how they look when high level synchronisation is reached - Lenalee, Allen and Crowley were not that much of human in thier last fights.
    Crowley is one I can think of that was called a monster and really looked that way, although Kanda was doing some strange thing in his fight too, if I remember correctly. As for Allen and Rinari... actually, yeah... Allen especially looked more human-like than actually human, but I don't remember Rinari being "inhuman". Of course, Road knows more than we do, so maybe that's just foreshadowing.

    Road is the oldest Noah, isn't she? It's natural for her to know a lot about Heart and about bookmans - so she can understand Rabi well.
    The first to become a Noah, I think. For all we know, she could be a mind-reader or has encountered a Bookman in her past, and that's why she knows. Also, maybe the Earl trusted her with knowledge that the others don't have (or she put two and two together from what she saw of battles... she's hardly stupid).

    Agreed about Cross. Besids, it would be lame if he showed up just now and saved everyone. It would break character developments for both Allen and Rabi, which I would hate if that happenes.
    Cross has just been too powerful. We've never seen any of his actual weaknesses; the drinking and money and stuff only add to his personality. It'd be nice to see him getting beaten up or having tea with the Earl and have fallen into a trap or something, and be saved by the others...

    Rabi's death would make around zero or mabe -10 points of sense to me. The whole Road's attack and making suffer this is only for the sake of development - Rabi should break that Bookmanish thing inside him and return to being Comrade. If he succeedes, Road is defeted.
    Two reasons why Rabi's death would make sense:

    1) He's dead, he isn't coming back - well, sure, he just had character development, but then he dies for good? That's depressing and dark, and it could show a new direction for the manga. (Unlikely)

    2) He dies and then is brought back somehow with everyone else in the Ark, which means that he gets to keep all that character development to become a stronger character in the future.

    I'm worried that Rabi will be the one to stop, uh, himself... I really hope that doesn't happen. Saving yourself in that way is an overused idea in shounen manga, and there wouldn't be any character development for others (like ALLEN). Besides, that just makes Rabi weird... he was stabbed by zombies, he's weak/dead/passed out...

    ...Also, we're kind of assuming that he knows what's going on outside his mind. As far as I know, he doesn't. Even if he did wake up, what's going to happen? For all we know, the evil-side might not be in his consciousness anymore, because it's controlling him, so nice-Rabi just has to sit around and wait. He doesn't know that Allen is being attacked, after all.

    So the best outcome I can see is Allen killing Rabi for now, and then something will happen to bring him back at a later time.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  10. #20
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    It is her duty. She said that the Noah feel obliged to kill Exorcists because of the Noah genetics or something... but the main point is that Road is close to her friends and family (and possibly to some of the Exorcists when she shouldn't be.
    You misunderstood me. Yes it is her duty, but is it also a reason that she fights for right now? NO.


    That's true; she manipulates people using emotions. She's doing it with Allen, and his desire to protect others (especially Rinari), but she herself knows how it feels to lose someone close to you, and doesn't like being in that position. So why couldn't she understand how much it hurts Rabi to make that choice?
    You just answered to your question in Arc discussion thread - because Road is CRUEL and this haven't changed. She is hurting both Allen and Rabi, but not phisically - emotionally.

    Crowley is one I can think of that was called a monster and really looked that way, although Kanda was doing some strange thing in his fight too, if I remember correctly. As for Allen and Rinari... actually, yeah... Allen especially looked more human-like than actually human, but I don't remember Rinari being "inhuman". Of course, Road knows more than we do, so maybe that's just foreshadowing.
    I think this "inhuman/human" quetion about exorcists deserves its' own thread so I'll make one.


    The first to become a Noah, I think. For all we know, she could be a mind-reader or has encountered a Bookman in her past, and that's why she knows. Also, maybe the Earl trusted her with knowledge that the others don't have (or she put two and two together from what she saw of battles... she's hardly stupid).
    Maybe.

    Two reasons why Rabi's death would make sense:

    1) He's dead, he isn't coming back - well, sure, he just had character development, but then he dies for good? That's depressing and dark, and it could show a new direction for the manga. (Unlikely)
    It amkes zero sense - killing character who just had character development. Why bother giving him this development if he is about to get killed?

    2) He dies and then is brought back somehow with everyone else in the Ark, which means that he gets to keep all that character development to become a stronger character in the future.
    Dies, then revives....I don't like this scenario.

    I'm worried that Rabi will be the one to stop, uh, himself... I really hope that doesn't happen. Saving yourself in that way is an overused idea in shounen manga, and there wouldn't be any character development for others (like ALLEN). Besides, that just makes Rabi weird... he was stabbed by zombies, he's weak/dead/passed out...
    1) He will most likely save himself. Yes it's overused. But if Allen saves him it will be typical too. For character development you can sacrifice originality once, it won't hurt that much.
    2) Allen doesn't need character development now, he just got power up.
    3) He is stabbed in his dream so it doesn't matter. Him being stabbed is just a symbol of a Comradish part of his soul loosing to Bookmanish part, nothing more.

    ...Also, we're kind of assuming that he knows what's going on outside his mind. As far as I know, he doesn't. Even if he did wake up, what's going to happen? For all we know, the evil-side might not be in his consciousness anymore, because it's controlling him, so nice-Rabi just has to sit around and wait. He doesn't know that Allen is being attacked, after all.
    It doesn't matter if he knows what is going on outside. He just have to win his inner battle to take control of his body again and win against Road as well.

    So the best outcome I can see is Allen killing Rabi for now, and then something will happen to bring him back at a later time.
    Please, no reviving characters! I'm afraid that Crowley and Kanda will return at some poitn, but if there would be THREE of them.....

 

 
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