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  1. #41
    shaman-king is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    1)He was pissed off and he wanted a solid punch. Kind of the same way one might stub a toe get pissed off and punch a wall, or the way one might want to punch a sibling because they did something stupid. These are situations where you punch things simply because you are angry and you want to vent your frustrations, same as allen punching jasdebi, in these types of situations you do not take pleasure in venting your anger. And this proves that he derives pleasure from killing akuma how?
    2)The fact of the matter is she cant defend herself, if i remember correctly she couldnt even walk by herself on the way to the room that mikki was in.
    3)Kanda and allen have acknowledged each other on several occasions the latest time being when allen told kanda to come back alive after the fight with the noah. But because of the nature of their relationship it wasnt expressed as outright affection because thats not the type of relationship they have. The only time that kanda and allen have fought was when allen first appeared at exorcist headquarters and they thought he was an akuma. In rabis case are you saying that love rivals cant be friends because thats not the case. A direct example of rabis friendship is the fact that he is currently fighting road. When allen attacked mikki rabi tried to join in but road interfered, why did rabi join in you ask, because he wanted to help allen fight mikki. Thats what friends are for.
    4)Allen doesnt like death because youre alone. Theyre is nothing, nobody to keep you happy or company. I dont know what happened to his parents but i know his caretaker was killed by an akuma, this was a tramautic event because it when he got the left eye and he found out that akuma were actually human souls in pain,but more importantly he knows what it feels like to be all alone with nothing but the darkness to comfort you, so he fights to protect the friends that bring him happiness and to save the souls trapped inside the akuma bodies. He doesnt enjoy destroying the akuma shell, but if it will save a large number of human lives in the future and save the soul inside from eternal suffering then he considers it the least he can do, and its with this conviction that his heart is tied to his innocence.
    5)I remember no instance where he played any mind game with an akuma, if you could post a link to that page i would be eager to read it.
    7)Tikki doesnt necessarily hate exorcists, he hates the innocence, and allen doesnt necessarily hate the exorcists he just dislikes the fact that they try to escape the darkness of humanity. (Which he states at the end of chapter 114) the difference is tikki hates one of god's gifts to man and allen hates the fact that the noah's try to escape an essential part of humanity.
    Wrong, youre misinterpreting what katsura-dono said. What he said was that he IS trying to create a pure hearted character despite everything he has to go through. Allen supports this by saying theres no way such a nice guy can survive in such a cruel manga. There would be no person like that to exist because a world like that doesnt, there is no world with akuma. This is a vital part because its the sheer presence of the anti-akuma weapon, which exists because of the akuma, that draws allen to general cross in the first place which then leads to his cheating, lying, and sometimes stealing, but these were things that he had to do to survive.
    9) Innocence is a special ability given to humans from god correct? Unless im mistaken a gift from heaven is almost always classified as divine. The innocence killed suman because he betrayed it. All exorcists of the black order know that if you betray the innocence it can kill you. Once again the innocence is a gift from god that can destroy an enemy that no man without it could destroy. Im not suprised it comes with a few rules and regulations. It caused pain to allen and rinalee because they went over their synch raito's, once again one of those rules and regulations. And from what i know it tortures skin boric as well before he starts to change color and gain more noah like features. I think it would be safe to assume that it tortured all of the noah in a similar way. To be honest we dont know that much about the noah, this is the first time that weve seen a serious fight against more than one of them. Theyre could easily be something inside the noahs that reacts to the innocence. And for the record i never said the innocence was good i said it was divine (by divine i mean an act of God's will) and things that are divine arent always good. Take the 10 plagues for example or God asking Abraham to sacrifice his only son.

    I didnt say God was punishing but he did give the exorcists the ability to destroy the akuma which kill and feed on his children. Now you tell me who the good guys are, the ones protecting mankind from the human eating monsters, or the ones who are creating and controlling them?


    According to your logic ("For the record, akuma are HUMAN SOULS. He also is now starting to kill Noah, who are *humans*. Ultimately, everything is a human.")
    akuma are human which is not the case. Yes they have human souls but the human souls have no control whatsover. Without the akuma the soul would go to heaven, it would not exist as a human being. They are simply a battery to power the machine that the earl controls, and the entire time the souls are inside they are suffering greatly. For the record the only reason allen even THREATENS to kill the tiki is because he attacked rinalee not only when she couldnt defend herself but when she was not even his opponent at the time. Attacking helpless women, yeah good people do THAT.

    I think the simple fact that Allen is protecting humanity from the flesh eating monsters that the noah command proves who has the purer heart. Jasdebi did not attack crowley because he "looks" like a monster, he attacked crowley because he was underestimating him and berating him, and we have no idea that road hasnt killed anyone, but the fact that she controls monsters that eat them doesnt exactly gain her any bonus points. Which once again shows who has the better values.

  2. #42
    Servant Kolox is offline Member Newbie
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    1) One question - what was Allen supposed to do with Jasdevi ?
    a) Smack him on the head and say "don't be silly"?
    b) Give him a candy ?
    c) Tell him "it's not nice to treat girls like trash"
    d) Inform him that Rinali is his friends and he doesn't like when someone is trying to kill her
    e) KICK HIS ASSSSSSS !!!

    2) Chaozi isn't a fighter. He never fought, he doesn't now what to do and he never faced auma/noah in life - simply, he is paralyzed from fear and amazement if what he see. Rinali is too stupid to understand in what situation she is

    3) Kanda x Allen - man friendship This is too complicated to woman ^_^
    Rabi x Allen - friends, it doesn't looks like Allen see his as a threat

    4) I agree with Shaman-kun. In that, Allen resembles Rinali

    5) Referring to level 3 akuma Allen fought in Asian Branch ? Simple - he needed informations. How would he get any information from dead Akuma ?

    7) Noah calls themselves "superior beings". I think that's enough of the proof what they think of humans....

    The fact that Allen isn't purehearted doesn't mean he is evil (although that's pretty much what was said)

    9) It's kinda hard to discuss, since Hoshino put that motive of "false god". But anyway - the exorcists believe they are fighting for the good case (and well - humans are victims, exorcist are protectors)

    10) Road is evil - people who plays with other lifes just to get some pleasurement from that are evil. You don't need to kill someone to be evil, there are many other ways to achieve this status (she might be just emotionally not able to kill someone by herself, so she would use someone else or her Akuma minions)

  3. #43
    yandee16 is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    It does feel like Digital Eon is grasping at straws here. Allen occasionally does lash out or screw up and do bad things, but he is still generally good. His motivation for fighting is to save everyone: humans and akuma. Which is pretty self-less.

    More importantly, Tyki's vacuum power is lame. 1) It's kinda silly. 2) Can't Allen just use the clown belt like a grappling hook again to pull himself out of the vacuum to where he can breath again?

  4. #44
    shaman-king is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Its not a matter of just being in a vacuum, tyki's basically erasing everything that exists in that space.

  5. #45
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Okay, so I'm exaggerating on his love of killing things, but I'm serious about Allen being just as/more evil than other Noah. That can't be denied.

    So, in short~

    1) ...Answer d), Kolox. =P Seriously, though, he didn't have to say he LIKED it. (Of course, like everyone doesn't already know that he also likes Rinari, and yeah.)

    2) Rinari can fight more than Chaozi, and her Innocence is potentially dangerous (for her).

    3) Kolox, I've never seen two males dislike each other quite that much. They HAVE fought numerous times, or expressed their dislike (like, um, volume 2? =D). As for Rabi, I think Allen is starting to be annoyed. Rabi sees Allen as a good friend, but Rabi has the same kind of friendship complex that Rinari does.

    4) Well, true. But he could have said it differently. (Unless he isn't actually trying to hit on Rinari?)

    5) Yeah, that one. Come on - he says he won't kill it and AS THE AKUMA IS SPEAKING he's killing it?! While smiling? What the HELL?

    6) This isn't actually here, but I feel the need to mention this randomly: I have this thing where I imagine characters in books I read for school as manga characters (really - like how Guts ended up in WWI =P), and then along came Hamlet... and it's really amusing to picture DGM characters in THAT.

    7) And the Exorcists haven't done that, either? Well, Kanda has, at least. Anyway, it's pretty clear that the Noah *do* have superpowers and are kind of superior anyway.

    Er, I think Hoshino-sensei just meant that she wanted to create a nice character and Allen just didn't turn out that way - he's not pure-hearted.

    9) We THINK Innocence is a gift from God. The Noah also say they were blessed by God and we actually have no way of determining who's right - the Noah have no reason to lie, after all. For all we know, Innocence is some kind of evil version of whatever the Noah have. WE DON'T KNOW.

    As for the akuma, killing all humans except for a few happened before. Read chapter 78 - it's heavily implied that akuma ARE creations of God.

    And about Tiki... um, I'm pretty sure, and this is just an educated guess, that he attacked Tiki because Tiki attacked Rinari who Allen likes. Allen going crazy because Rinari is attacked is nothing new. Besides, Rinari is an EXORCIST. It is the Noah's duty, and it's in their genetics, to kill Exorcists (which, incidentally, makes Road an odd person indeed). For Tiki not to attack Rinari would be strange, especially since he's done so before - AND he thinks it's possible that she has the Heart.

    10) If Road isn't emotionally able to kill someone, that means she can't be THAT evil. And as for playing with life... when has she really done that? Everything she's done has really led to improving the lives of the Exorcists in the end (except making Rinari into a doll, but that wasn't even really harming her).

    Jasdevi... er, Jasdevi attacked Crowley because Crowley attacked him first, in defence of Allen (and from what we've heard of Allen's past, this isn't his first attack as the result of being in debt). After that, he demonstrated monster-like abilities. Even normal humans were scared of him.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  6. #46
    Servant Kolox is offline Member Newbie
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    1) I personally prefer the e) answer since d) answer doesn't look constructive when fighting an opponent like Jasdebi

    2) Yes. Rinali is a fighter. Chaozi isn't.

    3) I've seen And in mangas it's quite common - I just started to read Prince of Tennis since everyone says it's so great - in most doubles we see 2 people who starts to scream at each other and picking a fight and then playing really good toghether - they are rivals, not enemies

    4) No, it was good. It's like you would ask Bob Marley why do we need to be happy in his song "Don't worry, be happy" ? Because being happy is better than being sad. And the same with Allen - because being alive is better than being dead. As simple as that.

    5) I don't find evil.
    Luffy : Devilishly clever trap

    6) I hate Hamlet. He came back, messed everything and he couldn't take responsibility for what he did ,but just died (the book is good, it's just the main hero who is annoying)

    7) Allen, Rabi, Rinali - most of them doesn't think like that. Just because some people are obsessed with power, well - it's human nature. And Noah are pretty much that kind of human who are obsessed with power.

    Allen isn't pure-hearted because he can feel hostility to others and he sometimes gets angry - he would be boring if he wouldn't. But that still doesn't make him evil.

    9) Can't disagree - it's what Hoshino wants to prove in future.

    10) Who says she is THAT evil. She is just evil There are many people who order other to kill someone but personally they can't stand blood (they are just weak). And making Rinali into doll was Road way to play with Allen - although if she made Akuma rape her it would be more crushing for Allen - but this is manga which 12 years old might read.....

  7. #47
    Celestial-Death-Sakura is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    1) b), I would like to know whether all Noahs like sweet thinks...by the way, test Tyki as well....

    answer d) would be a bit unnecessary because it's kinda obvious that Linali is his friend...

    2) Linali is an exorcist, Chaozi is a Finder. Exorcist fight (maybe Miranda and Hevlaska are exceptions). Finder are there to gather information and support exorcists. They aren't trained to fight.

    3) The greatest rivals that are hating each other might end up in some sort of different friendship. But still friendship. Still, Allen and Kanda had very little time to build up something different than rivalry with lots of verbal fights, ne?

    4) It's standard thinking of human beings. There are exceptions, as like everywhere else.


    I think I'll jump to 10)

    Nope, Road isn't really evil. Either she pretends to be more than she is, or she's hiding; latter is unlikely, because of her actions lately.
    And yes, Hoshino-sensei wouldn't make Road doing something like ordering An Akuma to rape Linali...>.>....she's young and a girl as well. If she would have been VERY evil THAN she would have done that. But since she seems to be nicer than she suppose to be...*shruggs*...if we come back to DE-sama's theory...she wouldn't like her 'mother' to be raped before she would get pregnant with her, right? ...just a side note...

  8. #48
    Servant Kolox is offline Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial-Death-Sakura View Post
    Nope, Road isn't really evil. Either she pretends to be more than she is, or she's hiding; latter is unlikely, because of her actions lately.
    And yes, Hoshino-sensei wouldn't make Road doing something like ordering An Akuma to rape Linali...>.>....she's young and a girl as well. If she would have been VERY evil THAN she would have done that. But since she seems to be nicer than she suppose to be...*shruggs*...if we come back to DE-sama's theory...she wouldn't like her 'mother' to be raped before she would get pregnant with her, right? ...just a side note...
    I would add a comment that Road not understand the difference between good and evil - he just do stuff which are good for her (breaking her playmates is bad But if it's Akuma, which she can have 1000, it's not a big deal)
    Forget the rape comment I think I might over do it when I wrote it ... although I can really see Road ordering something like that (just because Allen likes her more than her).

  9. #49
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    1) We've seen no evidence that Jasdevi/Tiki like sweets, but we've only seen four Noah (plus Allen).

    And he SHOULD say "don't touch Rinari!" in some menacing voice so that she sees how awesome he is and falls in love and then Jasdevi runs away and they're happy... BUUUUUUT...

    2) I know, but the original point was that Rinari isn't the only/most defenceless person there.

    3) Prince of Tennis is unusual. Anyway, Allen and Kanda don't get along in any way and aren't really comrades/partners as Exorcists/whatever. Kanda was with another group.

    4) Those are my thoughts - there's no point to dying. It's still fairly selfish and all.

    5) It looks like mental sadism.

    6) Oh, then you'd love to picture the characters as DGM ones! There's something awfully amusing about picturing Allen killing Komui AND Cross... and previously making inappropriate sexual comments to Rinari. Oh, and going mad. It's just fun.

    7) Road and Jasdevi have not shown themselves to be obsessed with their powers, and Tiki wasn't *that* bad until recently.

    Everyone feels that - even pure-hearted shounen characters. Allen just... isn't.

    9) Indeed. SO amused.

    10) Road wouldn't do that. If she wanted to hurt/kill Rinari, she'd have let her die from Tiki's attack, right? Also, she didn't really know Allen at the time. Allen was also UNCONSCIOUS. Road just wanted the doll (actually, it looked like she wanted to protect Rinari more than Allen - Rinari wasn't harmed).

    I think Road knows the difference between good and evil, though. She really hasn't done many evil things (and her character has changed recently to the point where she hasn't done ANYTHING evil - she hasn't hurt Rabi, even!). As for the akuma - theory? =P Anyway, if Road grew up knowing ANYTHING about akuma she'd probably have a natural dislike for them, too.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  10. #50
    Celestial-Death-Sakura is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Road is in any way more mature than her appearance, of course she knows of good and evil. She's acting like that because Hoshino-sensei seems to have something big for her in store.
    Still, she appears to be like a child that is only playing, not really grasping the whole story. That's an advantage for her, that others are thinking about her like that, but only the first time (that might be their last).

    She did never say that she like Akuma. It's more that she uses the Akuma like toys or servants.

    By the way, Road is going to school, right? In that century she's in...aren't females not allowed to go to school?

 

 
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