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  1. #31
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    He doesn't try and kill everything, but he *did* attack the scientists at the Asia branch (see chapter 82). Allen isn't quite as sadistic as Tiki, but I think he's lacking some of the friendship morals that he should be - looking back on recent events, it's like he doesn't even care about protecting people anymore (except Rinari, but she is...). He doesn't fight for those reasons.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  2. #32
    Servant Kolox is offline Member Newbie
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    That time he was emotionally broken and everyone pressed to much on him (come on - he was just killed a while ago and he lost his innocence and now everyone is just making it harder for him, at least from his point of view). And Allen didn't lost his friendship morals, or your saying that just because he left behind Crowley and Kanda he became hearthless ? They were fighting with time, just staying there would kill them all - hopefully they would defeat further obstacles and the ones left behind would catch up.
    At least Allen wasn't a sissy lately, I will give him a some credit of respect for that.

  3. #33
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Er... no, it's not that he left them behind, but that he never seemed to really care about them. At least, the impression that I got was that he wanted to stay back to fight, not to help them. I was mostly referring to Allen's power-up, though; after everything he's gone through... (and emotionally broken? He's whining about how he wants to kill an akuma!)

    And anyway, heroes have a non-selfish excuse for living. That's what makes Allen cool.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  4. #34
    shaman-king is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    ara ara, as an allen walker and d-grayman fan i find this all quite troublesome. First off Allen doesnt enjoy hurting humans, yes he enjoyed kicking jasdebis ass but he had tried to harm his friends, perfectly understandable. The only reason he told tyki that he MIGHT end up killing him is because he went so far as to attack the only person in their group that cant defend themself, not to mention that rinali is in a very fragile state right now and allen and rabi are aware of this. I dont understand what people mean when they say he doesnt care about his friends. His friends are the reason why he fights to continue on living so that he can continue enjoying their company and being around them, its the same reason crowley decided not to die and its the same reason him and kanda stayed behind to fight the noah. I think its kinda foolish to think that allen wanted to stay behind to fight more than he wanted to stay behind and protect his friends. The only reason he is smiling in his fight with mikki is because he is fully aware that mikki cant break down his Crown Clown (as he states), and to be honest he has no time to be worrying about his friends seeing as he needs all his concentration fighting against myki. I also further believe that allen does not enjoy killing akuma nor human but in fact would rather spend his time enjoying life, some examples could be the title of this weeks chapter "timid person" or when he saved the exorcists from the level 3 akuma and told the akuma to rest in peace. From early on the manga has shown how much allen cares for humanity and how much he cares for the akuma, because of his eye he can see the soul trapped inside the akuma and he knows how much they are suffering, and now hes gone so far to proclaim that he will now fight to protect the akuma as well (after the formation of his Crown Clown), and from bookman commenting on how mad allen will be if he finds out that akuma released from the earl control die once they feed on a human again. As far as him gambling and threatening people goes what hero in a manga doesnt, Tsunade-dono has probably threatened jiraiya and sakura's lives as many times as she has rolled dice,that doesnt make her any less of a hero. To get back to my main point though i think allen is one of the most pure hearted heroes in the shonen world, the innonece reflects allens will so even if its broken down he can repair it. Allens will is to enjoy living life with those around him, to protect his friends and to help the akuma. These are all ambitions that katsura-dono has endowed allen with since the earliest chapters of the manga. I believe to say that allen likes to fight and harm people just for the sake of it would be to denote the entire reason he fights. Not only he but all of the exorcists fight for their beliefs, from what they feel is right in their hearts. Which is why they are able to become so much more powerful when the innocence acknowledges this.

  5. #35
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Okay, well~

    1) He liked hurting Jasdevi because Jasdevi hurt Rinari... in revenge for her punching them. He also enjoys killing akuma and, at the very least, humiliating people (he didn't know Tiki was a Noah then).

    2) Rinari, defenceless? At least she actually hurt a Noah - Chaozi was totally ineffective.

    3) He doesn't care *that* much about his friends - he fights with Kanda (a lot - and this ain't secret love fighting, it's I-Hate-Your-Guts fighting), threatens Rabi, and pretty much ignores the damage everyone else is taking. And if he's smiling because he knows Tiki can't win - well, he's still fighting, so...

    ...and either way, he isn't Rinari or Rabi, both of whom actually care about their friends to the point of emotional pain.

    4) Allen said he wants to live because he's enjoying life, or whatever the quote was. Nothing about friends.

    5) He also does enjoy killing akuma - before he got the Crowned Clown, anyway. He also said that he forgot about the akuma because of his friends. Sure, he's doing it for a fairly good cause, but it still means he has to like killing things. Anyway, the fact that he blames his friends for it...

    6) Converted akuma don't die when they feed again, exactly. They self-destruct when their self-control is lost... same thing, I suppose.

    7) And as for the Bookman bit, it's because self-destructing akuma's souls aren't saved or whatever. Yeah, he cares about the akuma, but I'm sure Tiki cares about humans too, and we know what he's like. Okay, that's an exaggeration.

    Allen isn't pure-hearted. Even Hoshino-sensei says so.

    9) And yeah, he fights for the akuma - because he can't do otherwise. It's his Innocence that is choosing this for him. Innocence isn't pure, as we've seen many times - it's actually quite, um, evil. He's stated that his entire body is an anti-akuma weapon, so he doesn't really have a choice in fighting. He HAS to. And the fact is that he enjoys it. We haven't seen any other character speak like that - Rabi and Rinari want to protect others, and Kanda is, as mentioned above, a bastard. Crowley may be forced into fighting but he doesn't seem to have nearly the kind of passion that Allen has.

    ...Really, he's just as bad as the Noah. Worse than Road, in any case. Even Tiki has human friends.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  6. #36
    Servant Kolox is offline Member Newbie
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    This will change into the same discussion like in Q&A thread but still

    1) He never enjoyed fight with Jasdevi (he isn't a masochist and mostly he was getting thrashed). And while killing Akuma he thinks he actually help those souls (he can see them and see how they get freed after destroying akuma-body).
    2) OH YEAH - STRAIGHT RIGHT - ONE HIT K.O !! Rinali caused 9999 damage on Jasdebi...not ! The only thing that Jasdebi did is abide the first law of Newton - F=ma. Not much damage was made by Rinali - I would dare to say, no damage was done. She is a freaking damsel in despair right now.
    3) All the time he is talking about how he believes in his friends (and in Kanda too). I think that's caring in other way - he trust them and that motivates him.
    4) He is enjoying life because of some things - like for example : friends.
    5) Never he showned any enjoyment, except while defeating the level 3 where he was a little showing off (tried to threaten the enemy to learn about situation - that's all I can see there, not much of enjoyment).
    6) ......
    7) Tiki doesn't care about all humans, I think. Just a several individuals who he has some connections with.
    She fails at proving he isn't - she just fails at making Allen evil.
    9) I think becoming an anti-akuma weapon was something which he doesn't regrett - it gave his life a purpose and he believes he fights for justice (whatever this justice is good or evil, Allen is too stupid to comprehend it - for him fighting for God is being good, he is quite simple).
    10) Allen is ugly - he can't make friends

  7. #37
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    1) No, he didn't enjoy getting beat up. He enjoyed punching Debitto in the face. And he still likes killing them, doesn't he? Even if he does it for a good reason?
    2) She knocked Debitto over. Still more than anything Chaozi has done.
    3) Believing =/= caring. Rinari cares. Rabi cares. Allen doesn't care about protecting them.
    4) He didn't say friends. (What friends? The only thing I can think of is Rinari.)
    5) No, but he wants to do it anyway - he goes and targets them. AND he did say that he felt an excitement in fighting them (see chapter 82).
    6) Yeah.
    7) They're still humans. Anyway, he IS a human, and he cares about Noah too.
    No, she failed at making him a good character. See this?
    9) Of course he doesn't regret it. He likes it. It's his life. It still means that he, like the Noah, is living a life of killing humans without regret. In addition to that, he wasn't forced into it. Rabi might've been. Rinari definitely was. Allen wanted that life.
    10) He's friends with Rinari. What more does he need? =P (Rabi is, after all, a LOVE RIVAL.)
    ~Digital_Eon~




  8. #38
    shaman-king is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    ara ara, 1)He hit jasdebi because he tried to hurt his friends, thats the fact of the matter, and no he doesnt enjoy killing akuma, but he still does it in order to save the souls inside the akuma. The only pleasure that he could possibly get out of destroying the akuma is that he frees the souls of those trapped inside the akuma.
    2) Rinali is defenseless at the moment because she surpassed her limit with the innoncence synchronization, and what does chaozi have to do with that?
    3)He does care about his friends and he does believe in them which is why he was able to leave them to their own fights because he believes in their strength. I find it somewhat ridicolous that one would believe that he doesnt care about his friends because he threatens and fights with them. This is how most main characters act in mangas, Ichigo fights with ishida, naruto fights with sakura, and yoh-dono fights with ren. According to your logic no anime or manga characters really like each other.
    4)There is no doubt that allen is living to enjoy life with his friends. What else could he be fighting to protect. Once again according to your logic allen fights for no reason which cant be the case because his heart is tied to his innocence and if his heart had no ambition or desire then his innocence would have no strength.
    5)Allen has never showed any enjoyment in fighting akuma. Point blank period. He doesnt blame his friends for forgetting about the akuma, hes happy that hes able to find joy in his life rather than having to live a lonely existence destroying souls in pain trapped inside akuma. He wants to save the akuma as well as the humans because he knows the pain the souls inside are in, believe me he takes no pleasure in that.
    6)Thank you for the clarification, although allen will still be angry that thats the situation. (or so says bookman)
    7) The only humans tiki cares about are the ones he has a close connection with. If he did im pretty sure he would have second thought about commanding akuma. (Theyre the ones that eat them)
    According to the link katsura-dono says she IS trying to create a pure-hearted character. Allen then replies there is no way a pure hearted character could survive in such a manga. ( I dig the comedic repetoire of it all though)
    9)First off allen decided to be an exorcist to stop the akuma from eating humans, and the innocence isnt evil, if anything its divine. The only time the innocence has done something bad was when the owner betrayed it, like samson ( i forget his name) begging the earl for forgiveness, if anything its just divine punishment. The innocence is a gift from GOD, and since when has he been living a life of killing humans? Unless im mistaken hes an exorcist, they live the lives of killing akuma right unless im mistaken and the order of the black priests is a totally different organization. As far as kanda being a bastard ill give you that but thats just another character dynamic, theres a badass good-guy in every good manga or anime. There are also the more caring generous characters like rabi and renalee, its called individual personalities and character dynamics. Without them each character would be the same and that would make for quite the boring manga. As far as the passion goes i think you have it mistaken. Allens passion is protection humanity and saving the souls inside the akuma. I would be geniunely interested in where it says that allen loves "killing humans".

    To be honest it seems you wish to make tyki out to be more humane than allen, which if you check the track record you will see is not the case. Unless you forgot that the exorcists are human as well.

  9. #39
    shaman-king is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    For the record d.gray-man is an adventure, comedy, action, but most importantly horror, and gothic shonen. (You can check wikipedia for the genre) So it only makes sense that the some of the good guys might have a darker side to their demeanor but to say that theyre darker characters than the bad guys would be to switch roles between good guys and bad guys. If the bad guys are nicer than the good ones, whose the bad guy? Especially in a manga where the good guys strength (innocence) is directly tied to their ambition and heart.

  10. #40
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    No double-posting, sweetie. ^_^ About the bad guy/good guy - we actually don't know. There are theories that Allen could be a Noah, and I've also outlined in another thread that Road is actually a pretty decent person. The fact that the Noah and Exorcists are both human means that it is hard to decide who's really good and bad. They're all humans killing humans, essentially.

    1) ...Er, he could have actually attacked Jasdevi in some other way, but he didn't. He wanted revenge for Rinari and enjoyed it. And he still derives pleasure from killing akuma, then, doesn't he?
    2) Chaozi is even more defenceless than Rinari - at least her Innocence is doing something.
    3) Except that he and Kanda aren't friends, and Rabi is his clear love rival, and by threaten I mean THEY HAVE ACTUALLY TRIED TO KILL ONE ANOTHER. This isn't some training session, this is just the way they get along.
    4) His Innocence has strength because it's Special. If Allen's heart is tied to his Innocence, Allen's reason for living is killing akuma and Noah. His friends have nothing to do with anything. Besides - who says he can't just like existing? He likes life because living is better than death.
    5) So why did he play mind games with akuma before killing it, and smiled?
    6) Because it seems anything that doesn't hate akuma would actually want a decent end for it. (Again, odd behaviour for Road.)
    7) Tiki hates Exorcists. Allen hates Noah. We've seen no signs that Tiki hates all humans, just the ones he *has* to hate. What's the difference, really?
    Which means that since he's alive, he isn't pure-hearted, ne~e? Anyone who really was like that would be corrupted anyway. =P
    9) Innocence is DIVINE? Okay, no, that's just wrong. Innocence is cruel. It killed Suman. It caused extreme pain to Allen and Rinari. It tortured Tiki. That's NICE? Oh, and did I mention that boy who Rinari saw, who became a togaochi? Yeah. Good things do THAT.

    If God is punishing, then why couldn't the Noah be the ones from God?

    For the record, akuma are HUMAN SOULS. He also is now starting to kill Noah, who are *humans*. Ultimately, everything is a human. The Exorcists are a division of the Order, aren't they?

    Rabi and Rinari's extreme love of friendship is getting annoying, though.

    Tiki isn't more humane than Allen, although Road seems to be. Tiki is damn evil. He's the worst of the Noah. At the same time, though, can we say Allen is nicer/more pure-hearted than any other Noah (except maybe Boric, who was an awful lot like Kanda)? Jasdevi attacked Crowley because they thought he was a monster (and who wouldn't think that if he wasn't a protagonist). Road hasn't killed anyone or caused negative injuries. They're still human, and they still seem to have human values.
    ~Digital_Eon~




 

 
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