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  1. #51
    wajubalo is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranteil View Post
    And wajubalo: if she found out all the info at once but needed a place to start, where would it be? I would check out the village.
    That was my point, IF she had found out all the information then checked out the village it would have been more plausible. But the way the manga made it sound was that she found out about the village from investigations and THEN deduced all the other facts about ongoing war, other continents etc.

    Just have a quick read over it, that is how the manga makes it seem like - even if it wasn't the writer's purpose to make it that way.

  2. #52
    Elcura is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    not necessarily, it could just be the way it was translated.

  3. #53
    timber is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by wajubalo View Post
    That was my point, IF she had found out all the information then checked out the village it would have been more plausible. But the way the manga made it sound was that she found out about the village from investigations and THEN deduced all the other facts about ongoing war, other continents etc.

    Just have a quick read over it, that is how the manga makes it seem like - even if it wasn't the writer's purpose to make it that way.
    I got the same impression when reading this chapter, it's as if Miria is conjuring all of this out of thin air. The only previous references are:
    - the mention in early chapters that there are "47 claymores, one for each province on THIS continent" (i.e. you get the impression that there are more continents and that they know it)
    - the Extra Scene chapter about Claire's final test before being admitted as one of the 47 claymores where I got the definite impression that the intervening Yoma is fully aware of the test and somehow part of examiners.

  4. #54
    hinagikukatsura is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    I think the mangaka rushed things .... Oh and I wonder on how they will go about this now.

  5. #55
    ranteil is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    @wajubalo: I didn't get that impression at all. In my scan she states that she did the following 1)went to the arcives to find info on the Org. 2) went to the "edge of this vast land" to follow through on the investigation. At this time she states the report about the village. To me this implies that she got the info she wanted, and decided to check it out.

    The theory is that Yoma are created by the Org, and so she pauses to let it sink in. That's when Galatea snickers and asks for proof. She replies about the sword being the proof, and admidts what she learned from the books, simply there was a larger area that was at war continusly and that there were the "Draconic monsters" and ext. Heck even the Lab part seems more like the truth. In short it depends on how you see the conversation. I see it in a more "natural" setting so the "proof" was prompted in the middle by someone else, when normaly she would have had it at the end.

  6. #56
    hailene is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    As people said earlier, this turns the whole world upside-down on its head.

    The final "bad" guys aren't bad guys. The abyssal ones are just pawns. For all we know, they're in cahoots with the organization.

    For that matter, will these people using dragon-like beings in war come to the continent we know and love as liberators? Surely Miria and her merry-women couldn't topple the organization with the likes of Alicia and Beth in their ranks. Things only get worse if the abyssal ones are actually somehow allied with the organization.

    Odd that their experiments lead to man-eating monsters. I mean, in theory, if you used these troops in battle and assuming you somehow won, don't you have like a bajillion monsters you have to deal with now? Even awakened ones seem to enjoy some good ole guts once in a while.

    It's like chopping off your broken arm. Seems sorta silly, doesn't it?

  7. #57
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by hailene View Post
    The final "bad" guys aren't bad guys. The abyssal ones are just pawns. For all we know, they're in cahoots with the organization.
    What? Why? The main "bad" guys are still bad no matter what. Priscilla is there, and still is to be killed. What are you talking about?
    For that matter, will these people using dragon-like beings in war come to the continent we know and love as liberators?
    We have absolutely no idea as to who those are and what their goals are. No reason to assume anything.

    Surely Miria and her merry-women couldn't topple the organization with the likes of Alicia and Beth in their ranks.
    Any arguments? We are unaware of how exactly strong the northern 7 are. No reason to assume things out of nowhere.

    Things only get worse if the abyssal ones are actually somehow allied with the organization.
    Indeed.

    Odd that their experiments lead to man-eating monsters. I mean, in theory, if you used these troops in battle and assuming you somehow won, don't you have like a bajillion monsters you have to deal with now? Even awakened ones seem to enjoy some good ole guts once in a while.
    Eeee..... is Alicia eating humans? No. Meaning, is the product org is going to use in battle a man-eating monster? No.

    If you are talking about ABs - they are failed products. They can't be used in battles.

  8. #58
    hailene is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    What I meant by saying the AB aren't the final bad guys. We've just seen the tip of the iceberg. In fact, the AB and everyone else on the continent are a huge experiment. While Priscilla may have killed Teresa, Priscilla herself was setup by the organization, as are all claymores, AOs, and Yoma.

    You don't punish a poorly trained dog. You beat the master who allowed it to become that way.

    Then again, human feelings get in the way and killing Priscilla would probably feel pretty good .

    And about the Dragon-using people. Are THEY actually the bad guys? Is the organization running this massive experiment (and ruining hundreds, if not thousands of lives) for a just cause? Will the dragon using people (unless someone tells me a better way denote them, I'm going to use DP for dragon people ) save them from the hell hole the organization set up for the people? Or will the DP kill everyone on our continent? (For either being associated with the organization or just 'cause they're yoma tainted).

    If so, then everyone is stuck between the organization that has no qualms in screwing with people's lives, and the DP who want to destroy them for whatever reason. Rock, meet hard place.

    And I'll throw in my lot in saying that, unless the author so wants to (and throws in some plot device that allows them Mira and co to win), that Alicia and Beth would probably win in a fight.

    Why?

    Supposedly Alicia and Beth are around the same level as an AB.

    Miiria and co couldn't (or wouldn't?) take on Riful.

    There could be a million reasons why not, but it seems that none of the 7 claymores wanted to tussle with Riful. Claire said herself she may not be able to defeat her, though whether she was speaking for herself or the group we don't know. The general vibe was Riful was stronger than them. Not a piece of concrete proof, but I would say it's within reason.

  9. #59
    Elcura is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by hailene View Post
    What I meant by saying the AB aren't the final bad guys. We've just seen the tip of the iceberg. In fact, the AB and everyone else on the continent are a huge experiment. While Priscilla may have killed Teresa, Priscilla herself was setup by the organization, as are all claymores, AOs, and Yoma.
    I dunno about you, or anyone else. But it was obvious that ABs weren't the final bad guys. Weren't you paying attention to the story? If you were you would know that Priscilla is Claire's personal goal, her own personal antagonist but in the big picture it was the Organisation (look at the north land campaign, everything they've said and Alicia and Beth) that were the real target.

    The Organisation happens to include those people from another continent.

    Quote Originally Posted by hailene View Post
    You don't punish a poorly trained dog. You beat the master who allowed it to become that way.
    Not how I see it. Priscilla is just as much at fault as the Organisation is, maybe not on a grand scale but she's just as applicable for punishment. She, nor any other AB is a poor victim that needs sympathy. The Organisation may have opened the door, but they still walked through it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hailene View Post
    And about the Dragon-using people. Are THEY actually the bad guys? Is the organization running this massive experiment (and ruining hundreds, if not thousands of lives) for a just cause? Will the dragon using people (unless someone tells me a better way denote them, I'm going to use DP for dragon people ) save them from the hell hole the organization set up for the people? Or will the DP kill everyone on our continent? (For either being associated with the organization or just 'cause they're yoma tainted).
    The DP aren't bad guys in my eyes. A war is a fight between two sides, there is no good or bad when it comes to people in other nations that aren't involved in the war. I doubt the DP would be hugely bothered about freeing an oppressed island. The main fight is still against the Organisation, whether the DP become enemies it to be seen. As they said, my enemy's enemy is my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by hailene View Post
    And I'll throw in my lot in saying that, unless the author so wants to (and throws in some plot device that allows them Mira and co to win), that Alicia and Beth would probably win in a fight.

    Why?

    Supposedly Alicia and Beth are around the same level as an AB.

    Miiria and co couldn't (or wouldn't?) take on Riful.

    There could be a million reasons why not, but it seems that none of the 7 claymores wanted to tussle with Riful. Claire said herself she may not be able to defeat her, though whether she was speaking for herself or the group we don't know. The general vibe was Riful was stronger than them. Not a piece of concrete proof, but I would say it's within reason.
    I wouldn't think the resistance could take on Alicia, though they don't really need to fight Alicia to kill her in order to win. Their target is the Organisation, they don't really want to fight any Claymores (not sure what you would class Alicia as right now, technically still a Claymore but also awakened).

    Even though Claire herself said that she wasn't strong enough to take on Riful, I'm not sure how all 7 of them would fair. Though I'm thinking the same as you, they aren't exactly strong enough to kill Riful or Alicia, but are strong enough so they won't die pathetically.

  10. #60
    msoltyspl is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Actually, after chapter 79, I'm curious about possiblity of (difficult) future sort-of-alliance between certain ABs and our Claymores. In "enemy of my enemy is my friend" way.

    And there's still Raki boy (or not so boy after 7 years) trained by, and possibly still with, Isley and Priscilla. It can introduce interesting twists.
    Last edited by msoltyspl; 05-29-2008 at 09:20 PM.

 

 
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