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  1. #21
    Saikudoh is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    In seven samurai--the original, not the anime--two warriors survived. If that happens in claymore someday--Miria and Clare survive?--then I can draw that parallel. (Being something of a purist, I haven't seen and may never see samurai 7.)

    But I refuse to accept that the only thing Yuma learned in those seven years is suppressing her yoma powers. That'll just be too lame.

    EDIT: Whoops. Just recalled 3 warriors survived. So that's Miria, Clare, and one more...
    Last edited by Saikudoh; 08-23-2007 at 12:36 PM.

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  2. #22
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    I just find it odd you guys are willing to state the 7 year training Yuma did (which we've seen non of) could beat the current number 3 or 5. It just so happens that in those 7 years she could have become incredibly strong or had minor growth.
    No, of course she is no match for any of top 10. But she could be OK for 11-15.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    You're also underestimating Audrey and the muscle chic. You never know how long they've been around, they might have been active Claymores since vast majority of them got wiped out clean from Pieta invasion meaning they also had 7 years actively killing Yoma and training?
    Yeah, we do not know that. They seem strong, but weaker then best of the gang. Yuma is not from the best for sure though.

  3. #23
    Ferozban is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    You never know how long they've been around, they might have been active Claymores since vast majority of them got wiped out clean from Pieta invasion meaning they also had 7 years actively killing Yoma and training?

    Even if they were Active since 7 years (what i doubt since they were so unexpierenced), they havent got more training and experience then a normal claymore.

    The gang instead had a hard training. The fought each other not some Yoma.
    Normal Claymore dont train with other Claymores. They got their lone-wolf-missions and some awakend hunting. The gang could train everyday. Learing from each other. They had all the time they needed to train every day and they got nothing better to do (instead of Clare who searched for Raki from time to time i guess), while the normal Claymores walked from town to town / cave to cave annihilating normal yoma and awakend ones. Thats not even close to be called compareable to the training i the north. (that we still didnt see sure, but we saw the outcome)

    Sure Yuma is weak, but only compared to the other members of the gang.
    Its just a guess but after what they all have been trough i think Yuma is stronger then expected. And maybe, just maybe even compareble to the current #3 or #6. But surely stronger then their warrior beneath 10

    anyways, i guess we will never know cause her only purpose is to die (thats pretty obvious)

    (i just wanted to point out that she didnt idle away her time in these 7 years and that this training did make a huge difference like we've already seen by the other members of the gang)

    My guess is that she will sacrefice herself to save someone of her gang.
    Last edited by Ferozban; 08-23-2007 at 12:51 PM.

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  4. #24
    Phantom Miria is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferozban View Post
    Even if they were Active since 7 years (what i doubt since they were so unexpierenced),

    Even if they were Active since 7 years (what i doubt since they were so unexpierenced), they havent got more training and experience then a normal claymore.

    The gang instead had a hard training. The fought each other not some Yoma.
    Normal Claymore dont train with other Claymores.
    They were so inexperienced compared to whom? Clare/Miria/Helen/Deneve? You do recall those four I mentioned borderlined near awakening experiences at least once with Clare having the experience multiple times. I somehow don't think the other three Cynthia, Yuma, and that other girl went through awakening because otherwise I wouldn't think Yuma would admit she's so weak compared to Clare. I admit these four probably did have immense growth in their trainings but I wonder if I can say about the other three. What I can admit (with visual proof) is one of them seem to have acquired the same sight Galatea had being able to observe from so far away. Combat trainings with monsters or not you can't assume that everyone will jump the ranks from number 40 to number 12. Clares a main character so I'm willing to accept it but Yuma's a cannonfodder. Without seeing anything to confirm her fighting abilities I'm going to assume she didn't have such an exponential growth, maybe somewhere around 20s or by stroke of luck late 10s.

    I would say the second attack the pitiful single digits launched involved a level of team work you'd expect from close partners who worked together on missions for a long time. I doubt they had time to train non stop for 7 years like Clare but I'm sure they too had trained, hunted and spent a long time together to know what the other would do in battle to perform a team attack without a mess up. They clearly knew what they were doing, they never predicted that the one they're up against is a giant piano ready to sit on puny flies.

    Numbers don't mean crap in actual combat yes we all know that. I'm sure Miata who is current number 4 can rip through Audrey current number 3 into pieces if she wished so. So maybe you are right, and maybe Yuma does deserve a single digit rank for trying so hard in the past 7 years even if she is less capable than miata or audrey in actual combat.

  5. #25
    Ferozban is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    What I can admit (with visual proof) is one of them seem to have acquired the same sight Galatea had being able to observe from so far away
    that is one of my main reason why i think that everyone of them has achived a great growth. an unknown claymore could learn such a skill. its only reasonable that Yuma learned at least one usefull skill too.

    and if the gang were still in the oranisation: Audrey and #6 would at least be # 8 and #11. if we assume that yuma is far weaker then the rest of the gang she still could take a high position (Yuma would be somewhere around 10 to 12 or 10 to 15) cuz beeing far weaker then Denve, Clare, Miria ... doesnt mean anything. Compared to Clare and Miria the surrent #3 and #6 were peanuts too.


    They were so inexperienced compared to whom?
    The main reason i call them unexperienced is not that Clare and the others have had such a special past. Who could expect that from normal Claymores.

    But:

    1. Galatea #3(same number as Audrey) noticed it on first sight that the little girl (riful) was ridiculously powerfull as they first meet. Audrey was just arrogant. Someone with experience would have NEVER EVER (even if she could not sense her true strength like galatea) said such pathetic things to an abyssadyl one. And would never have considered fighting her and get an easy win.
    They knew they would fight a beeing that lived since ages and they knew they fight a awakend #1. Audrey identified her and Riful introduced herself.

    Thats also why i hardly doubt that they were active since 7 years. 7 years of fighting yoma should at least leave something behind. But they didnt even consider that riful, an abyssadyl one!!!!! would hide her true strength.

    Instead of doing anything intelligent, they just rushed forward. An experienced warrior couldnt have such a major weakness like arroganz (at least not in front of a beeing like Riful) but both of them were.

    -> No way they have 7 years of experience fighting yoma. The organisation seems to have gone lazy with training their claymores in their camp since they've someone like Alice

    2. Clare and Jean did an incredible teamwork (first fight with riful) too tho' they've never meet before. Since #3 saw the attack of #6, she could adapt.
    some claymore seems to be fast learners when it comes to teamwork (i can give them at least this credit)
    The teamwork may or may not be an indication for previous shared missions.

    -----

    So anyway you look at it. Their current number 3 and number 6 are nothing special. (compared to Ophelia and Galatea number 3 is a joke for someone like Audrey, not to speak of numer 6) -> Yuma is/or was nothing special too, but at least she experienced a good training. Maybe she's weaker then #3 (and maybe even weaker as #6) but i doubt its a huge difference. Yuma could never be a single digit (same goes for their current #6) if the gang would still be in the organisation, but the 10s are suiteable for her. Yoma energie isnt everything. Fighting techniques take a big part (we've seen thar many times),
    and she has problably learned something within 7 years. (just a reasonable assumption)
    Last edited by Ferozban; 08-23-2007 at 02:48 PM.

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  6. #26
    Hynavian is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    What we can definitely say is that the current Number 30 and above are filler material and that means that Yuma will be able to defeat those above 30.

    I actually find Yuma a nice character. (You know its tough to follow Clare around and not get pissed by her attitude or something) Hence I promoted her abit. However, judging by how things are going she seems to be one of the sacrifical spawns of the team. She might do something great like being a meat shield for someone.

    However, if Yuma can be more confident, we might be able to see some Yuma power soon!

    Yuma Go Go Go!

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  7. #27
    akow2.0 is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    allright realizing this is breaching into insanity with the yuma conflict... im going to try my best to fuel the fire.

    im on the yuma = a single didgit

    edvidence

    1. Rubel said that the better claymores die young.

    we can assume that 7 years is crazy for any claymore to even LIVE let alone train due to the fact that it seems like clare was not in the organization very long before the series started due to her lack of experience. AND WE SAW ONE OF HER FRIENDS ON THE VERGE OF AWAKENING WHO STARTED AFTER HER. sure she was probably 40-45 ranked in my opinion, so her awakening was probably due to stupidity. Yuma was ranked 40 when she was in the northern campaign so i'll admit that we can probably only throw a few more years on to her training for the 7 years.

    2. Clare was 47 and killing yoma fairly easily

    Yuma has had experience with killing silly yoma, training with high numbers has DEFINITELY helped her more than the average training. They even said Clare most likely had the hardest time during these 7 years, NOT YUMA evidence that yuma might have had higher gain from the 7 years than clare (forgetting right now that clare is the protagonist :P).

    3. Miria called everyone on clare's first awakend being mission single didgits.


    She didnt say low digits (meaning 6) or high digits (meaning 9). so this gives leeway on the perspective of my next assumption. i believe that the 7 years of training has quite easily surpassed Helen or Deneve before. I know that yuma does not have half-awakened experience, which is definitely a gap between them, but she TRAINED with them. trained with people ranked (or assumedly ranked) "single digits". So i think it is safe to assume that she is a single digit from this.

    4. 24 claymores lost is a huge blow to the organization

    Time has past, people have been replaced I KNOW THIS.

    People 30+ have been allready marked as filler. this most likely means that the 40's were pushed up, bringing the overall standard for lower numbers easier to obtain. we lost 5 6 8 9 11 14 and 15 (who would have been pushed to single digits if she had survived) so the higher single digits are not as powerful as before. I am also going to exclude ophelia (excuse spelling) and galatea. so now we have 1, 2, 7 single digits left over from the old. think of that. the old SEVEN was made a THREE (probably, remember this is guesswork xD). THREE! think of that galatea = someone less than miria who even said that there is a huge gap from 5-6. now if that isnt evidence enough that standards have been set lower in the new organization, i dunno what is.

    5. and most OBVIOUS is we have SEEN the #9, NINA


    the one who was with Clarice when the 7 had to save them. Yuma is CLEARLY a single digit. Nina's "shadow chaser" attack is one of the most blatently simple and useless skills we have seen thus far. without allies its practically useless. Nina ALSO failed to notice the yoma of the hiding awakened ones who ambushed clarice and such. saying yuma is weaker than this is an insult to everyone who trained for the 7 years, if they couldnt make yuma stronger than that... what use was the training.


    OK I AM TIRED >.> i ranted and im done. this killed time. i didnt even know who yuma was before i read this, but then i went back and researched and i have stated my side.

  8. #28
    xxsaznpride is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Lol Akow... I love you now.

    #1 - I have on idea where you got this one...

    #2 - They only gave her #47 because she was 1/4th Yoma... they're mistake. Anyway, Clare probably had the hardest time because her style was so youki-intensive. Every single damn fight against a damn opponent (the ones past the first couple episodes, at least), she's had to unleash youki to power up. Overall, her gains are probably the most massive, as now she's able to run from Riful. That's way bigger than anything Yuma could have gained unless your counting purely on how much skill they've gained.

    #3 - I'd place Yuma top 20s... playing with big girls doesn't make you a big girl... you only get better at playing with big girls and learn to play like them at the same time. Where in the top 20s she'd be, though, I'd say at least mid-lower 10s.

    #4 - You're forgetting Eva's team... the #7 and her squad that got pwned by a bunch of Awakened to get the other 24 sacrificed. All in all, 28 lost.

    #5 - Lol. I agree with you on Nina's skill, but she's probably still got more raw skill than Yuma... wouldn't say she'd totally win though. Until we see Yuma do something (anything), we can't judge for sure how she'd do against the shitty and new top 10.

    ~~ shitty only applies to EVERYONE except Alicia and Miata. Beth can die for all I care.
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    And your name's annoying to type; from now on you're sazny.
    Farleen // Number 42

  9. #29
    Lizard is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by akow2.0 View Post
    allright realizing this is breaching into insanity with the yuma conflict... im going to try my best to fuel the fire.

    im on the yuma = a single didgit

    edvidence

    1. Rubel said that the better claymores die young.

    we can assume that 7 years is crazy for any claymore to even LIVE let alone train due to the fact that it seems like clare was not in the organization very long before the series started due to her lack of experience. AND WE SAW ONE OF HER FRIENDS ON THE VERGE OF AWAKENING WHO STARTED AFTER HER. sure she was probably 40-45 ranked in my opinion, so her awakening was probably due to stupidity. Yuma was ranked 40 when she was in the northern campaign so i'll admit that we can probably only throw a few more years on to her training for the 7 years.

    2. Clare was 47 and killing yoma fairly easily

    Yuma has had experience with killing silly yoma, training with high numbers has DEFINITELY helped her more than the average training. They even said Clare most likely had the hardest time during these 7 years, NOT YUMA evidence that yuma might have had higher gain from the 7 years than clare (forgetting right now that clare is the protagonist :P).

    3. Miria called everyone on clare's first awakend being mission single didgits.


    She didnt say low digits (meaning 6) or high digits (meaning 9). so this gives leeway on the perspective of my next assumption. i believe that the 7 years of training has quite easily surpassed Helen or Deneve before. I know that yuma does not have half-awakened experience, which is definitely a gap between them, but she TRAINED with them. trained with people ranked (or assumedly ranked) "single digits". So i think it is safe to assume that she is a single digit from this.

    4. 24 claymores lost is a huge blow to the organization

    Time has past, people have been replaced I KNOW THIS.

    People 30+ have been allready marked as filler. this most likely means that the 40's were pushed up, bringing the overall standard for lower numbers easier to obtain. we lost 5 6 8 9 11 14 and 15 (who would have been pushed to single digits if she had survived) so the higher single digits are not as powerful as before. I am also going to exclude ophelia (excuse spelling) and galatea. so now we have 1, 2, 7 single digits left over from the old. think of that. the old SEVEN was made a THREE (probably, remember this is guesswork xD). THREE! think of that galatea = someone less than miria who even said that there is a huge gap from 5-6. now if that isnt evidence enough that standards have been set lower in the new organization, i dunno what is.

    5. and most OBVIOUS is we have SEEN the #9, NINA


    the one who was with Clarice when the 7 had to save them. Yuma is CLEARLY a single digit. Nina's "shadow chaser" attack is one of the most blatently simple and useless skills we have seen thus far. without allies its practically useless. Nina ALSO failed to notice the yoma of the hiding awakened ones who ambushed clarice and such. saying yuma is weaker than this is an insult to everyone who trained for the 7 years, if they couldnt make yuma stronger than that... what use was the training.


    OK I AM TIRED >.> i ranted and im done. this killed time. i didnt even know who yuma was before i read this, but then i went back and researched and i have stated my side.
    Uff...I was slower than xxsaznpride who posted while I was writing my reply, but I have a slightly diferent opinions and got a little into a detail, so I will go on....

    to 1. Rubel said that it is better that the claymores die young, not that the better claymores die young. He said it becouse the older the Claymore is, the less they see organisation as a father figure, and the more they began ask questions about organisation true motives and whereabouts. What is something they obviously dont want.

    to 2. Killing a standart yoma is something entirely diferent from killing an Awakened Being or higher digit Claymore. If you can remeber in battle for Pieta, she was pretty much the most useless claymore around, loosing her arm in the very first fight...Yea, with that hard 7 year training she became stronger, and I doubt she would be considered as a filler for organisation, placing her somewhere between 10th and 20th digits, but I doubt she would made it in top 10.

    to 3. The only reason Miria said that they could rival a single digit was becouse they were in their strange Semi-Awakened state, thanks to which they were able to perform dificult Near-limit abilities like extending or regenerating arms easily, and not becouse of some kind of training or real potential. And she specificaly stated that they could rival only Claymores of 6-9 digits, and that if they has to fight claymores number 1-5 they should run away becouse there is gigantic gap in power between claymore number 5 (or was it 4? meh) and number 6. Also Training with them does not give her they "semi-awakened" state what is pretty much the prime reason why they can rival single-digits so I think she would get FAR less from that training that you are thinking

    to 4. Yea, as I said before, Yuma would be probably between 20th and 10th digit, but I dont see her much further. Yes the organisation reduced lower numbers into filler, probably becouse they lacked many medium-level warriors (and let be honest, majority of the warriors in Pieat had power level low-to-medium, or the organisation though so, at least ), but it would be pretty stupid if they didnt had a worthy replacement for the top 10 warriors, only for their new strategy of actively hunting for Awakened beings and patroling through north. ALicia is strong and all, but she can be only at one place at time, and there is numerous Awakened beings roaming arounds, so organisation HAVE to have some warriors that can safely dispatch Awakened being more or less alone (remeber at least 30 claymores are just filler now, so in other words a half or even 3/4 of that usuall 4 claymore team that they use for Awaken being hunt will be practically useless). Imo I think that the current top 10 is quite powerful (and I am in minority, I know XD ), Alicia/Beth no comment, Miata is insanely powerful from what was hinted, yea Audrey and Ray looked pretty pathetic in their fight against Riful, but come on, it is Riful we are talking about, one of the three most powerful beings in Claymore universe, I doubt that if old generation claymores from number 3 to number 6(Galatea, Ophelia, Rafaeala and Miria) had to fight her they would look pathetic like that too, when Riful would finally decide to stop playing with them. It was they underestimation and cockyness that defeat them, not they lack of abilities. We saw how they were able to deflect/destroy Rifuls attack without really trying so I think they could safely reatreat just like Mirias team if they decided to.

    to 5. Personally, I think that attack that will always hit an enemy, no matter how he tries to dodge is quite nifty. Sure it has flaws, and it is not exactly best attack i can imagine, but I think it is fitting for number 9, the weakest from single-digits...And I doubt Yoma has even that. I think you give too much value into training with Claymores which main powers lies in their Semi-Awakened state and not in their training or experience (except Miria, of course). Actually, if you think about it, for Yuma, a number 40 to be able to hide her Yoki so well like Rafaela who was a former number 2, is quite an extraordinary feat, one that she could be training for....majority of 7 years?

    Personally I see Yuma (and other two too) filling the same purpose as those nameless redshirts in Star Trek series: When they die it will signalize how serious is the situation and that protagonist should better start to take out big cannons (like Clares limb awakening). I dont except them to survive first all-out fight against one of main antagonist (like Isley, Duff, Riful, Alicia/Beth, Awakened Miata or any other powerful and plot-relevant enemy)
    Last edited by Lizard; 08-27-2007 at 06:20 PM. Reason: xxsaznpride ninja-posted :-)


  10. #30
    4uk4ata is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Ouch. That was harsh, turning a member of the 7 survivors as a litmus test for whether the situation is serious .

    My main concern is how strong the 7 are when they need to constantly keep their yoma powers down. Some of them were pretty reliant on their half-awakened attacks before, so even if they have replaced them with newer versions, it is dubious how good these are when the chips are down. So far their main achievement was to confront and then escape from Riful, but this was a hit-and-run more than a fight - and without yoki to read, Riful's senses were no better than her sight.

    As for Yuma... In the old organization, she with her new skills might be higher, but so far I only know that she is out of the league of Miria, Helen, Deneve and Clare, so based on her and the others being unnecessary in the Riful confrontation, I'd say she'd probably be past #20. In the new one, she may score a bit higher, but far from a single digit. I was surprised at her getting tired when she was following Clare. Does she have an incomplete change like the new 47, Clarice, or is she just physically weaker?

 

 
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