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  1. #1
    Tevesh is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Default The Nature of Post Counts

    Reputation is forged through interaction with the community. There is no other way to gain it, and in the ever so important world of the Internet, people seem to clamour for it. For the most part, it is to see whether you even affect the community when odd discussions pop up. New comers usually see a correlation with the popular and those with a high post count. They do not need to be liked, simply known. Newbies then consciously or not believe that there is correlation with post count and respect, as they crave attention.

    My suggestion is the removal of post counts to save the community at ST. Post counts for true members tend to be benchmarks, rather than any sort of social currency. Those who believe that spamming will give them reputation do so for the number next to their name, not those who are truly into the community and therefore post frequently. These interactions are culture, and culture is vital to identity. History is a part of identity and therefore culture; what is that for us internet denziens?

    Posts. Not our post counts, but our individual posts build our character and our history. While revision to history is sometimes needed, complete eradication is detrimental to the character of the culture. Secondly, because our history is built upon the interactions between members, forum wipes completely destroy users. Without any memory of the event, or the ability to even search for previous words or deeds, ST lives without character.

    How can this be remedied? Remove post counts, as the only reputation will be how much time you spend on the boards, rather than any stupid thinking that more posts are better. This will lessen the need for wipes, as people will post less to create quality posts to be remembered, rather than placing their hopes on identification through repetition.

    A second possibility is that a Reputation meter could be used, where the higher your reputation, the heavier you can influence other's reputations. Therefore, people can be trusted on their posts rather than their post count. With these measures in place, ST could simply have a bot auto clean any threads that have been inactive for thirty days, fifteen for locked posts.

    I hope the moderators can understand that I write this post because I want to be able to look up our history, rather than relegate it to memory that will fade. ST is seen as a Manga download place with a forum. By placing intelligent design into the forum, ST will further its legitimacy and therefore legitimize its goals. Whether that be to truly bash Tazmo or to create the best Manga download site on the Internet.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    billy7777 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Default

    I agree.

    I also have seen a forum where you can "dig" or "opposite of dig that i don't remember" a person's post.
    The dig's are added to a total number for the user, and the "un-dig"'s will substract from your total. I think this is a good method. It rates individual posts and also gives new members a number to distinguish by. Also, it will give incentive for quality posts, rather than just posts.

    Cons: It can of course be abused. Members could "un-dig" posts out of spite or for no reason. Or dig their own posts and friends.

    Just my experiences...
    I think "dig" and "un-dig" were just trademarks of that one forum. I don't think they are the default. [+ and - 's could work]

  3. #3
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Default

    I agree with you on most points. However, you left out a critical item that also tends to have more weight than it should, and influences others' opinions of you, and you in others. That is join date. For some reason, people tend to give more respect to those who have been around at the site longer than others. While I can see how this is warranted in some cases(Ishman for example, who has been around for a long time, and is respected because of it, and because of the intelligent content in his posts), there are also those that have been around for a long time(xUnrealpk 1[sp?] for example has been around since July 2005) yet does not have anything to warrant this respect(just check his posts over the last day). I am not saying that we should remove the part that lists the join date, but am merely saying that we all need to step back and look at the content of what the individuals say, and use that to judge what we think about them, and not let our prejudices about join date affect it(MojoMunkeez and Child of Serenity are good examples of this, intelligent people that are sometimes snubbed for their relative newness to the forum).


    "Let us cross over the river, and rest beneath the shade of the tree." - Last words of Stonewall Jackson

  4. #4
    Cold-NiTe's Avatar
    Cold-NiTe is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Default

    I've had a fairly hectic weekend so I can't write volumes about this like I want to, but I'll say this, excellent work Tevesh, I know I can count on you for critical analysis. As for reputation versus post count, it would be all the better if the two were detached. We give people goals that don't necessairily coincide with what we want them to do or what they need to achieve to have a better reputation.
    Dear cousin choppitychop89, you were a good relative, though I hardly knew ye.

  5. #5
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    smart man Tevesh...

    when I first showed activity on this site back in August 2005 i spammed my ass off because i thought that pretty blue bar was the most awesome thing on the internet. i gained a reputation as a bit of a belligerant prick and several fights broke out with other members. in some strange way the fights garnered more respect than the number of times id posted in the threads. no sooner than i could realize how to advance socially in the community my most active area was nuked (Bleach)

    i tried as hard as i could to be a useful member and moved from the Bleach Forums to the One Piece forums and i attempted to clean it up and leave my mark somewhere on the site. deciding to be an unforgiving noob basher i speed read One Piece, loved it, and dedicated my time (at least 10 hours a day) to bashing the living bleeding shit out of every noob that did something stupid in OP. resulting flame wars and victories and friendships led the OP frequenters to reccomend me to mod the forum because of Jyuu's compulsive fear/disgust of the shithole that was the One Piece forum, a task i readily would have accepted but due to my past and inherent noobiness that idea was quickly supressed and the excellent chioce of Volvogga was made. satisfied i moved on to the Chit Chat section. a place i had browsed and decided to make my new home.

    secure with a nice pretty 1000+ "Complete" post bar and the backing of several exceptional OP frequenters (Lizard especially) i proceeded to try to make a name for myself among the veterans (Char Sui Bao, Ishman, Oldmanhobo, 1cor1313 and company) and semi veterans (CPR?, Shinigamiwolf, ApocalypticARK, etc). after posting frequently and decently my luck ran out and i began to spam. threads like the clan thread let to the inevitable nuke of Chit Chat and i returned to less than 1000 posts and i felt like crap. i tried to fix my spamming addiction and i felt it neccessary to take a break after the VBulletin transformation and the incident with Char (whom i like very much).

    within the two months i was gone i started my own forum, became mod of a fellow member and hidden vet Sensimilija's forum, and became the Forum Admin of AnimeDB.net which should be destined to be one of the greatest anime information sites ever.

    i returned to Stoptazmo a week ago, mysteriously raised my post count by almost 100, learned to create decent siggies and am now trying to establish myself to the vets as a useful member of this site.


    and in the 9 months of activity ive realized one thing... no one gives a flying fuck about youre post count. its nice to have newbs look up to you because of it but it truely doesnt make you a productive member in the eyes of the people that "matter" and being productive is all that really matters.

    /end lifestory


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  6. #6
    Aikido is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    hmm. I'm not so sure that the post count is a problem, and I think we can look to some of the threads made recently to prove that. There was a thread on who we think the biggest spammers are. We could all go back months and months naming the biggest spammers.
    Post counts purpose is to show approximately how active a member is. If we know the spammers, then post counts can be fairly accurate (albeit to a point). I think that post counts can be effective in this way most of the time, and that the relative strengths and weaknesses of other measures (like reputation, karma, or digs) all have similar problems and advantages.

    there is no one, perfect system that I can think of. Maybe a joint system would be good (a synthesis of reputation and post count). But I dont know. I'm somehow attached to the idea of a post count, I guess...

  7. #7
    cpr's Avatar
    cpr
    cpr is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Default

    Honestly, with the way vbulletin is set up... with your post counts on the far right, I actually almost never look at your post count.

    I recognize people by their sigs. I know who is an active member and who post crap.

    me? a semi-vet? AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm tired of being grouped with the vets cause I never considered myself one. =P

  8. #8
    billy7777 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Default

    ZOMG6PARAGRAPHZORZ

    I don't think many noobs look up to people with high post counts. I mean, I don't at least. Boo CN!

  9. #9
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Default

    if the nukes had never happened and other random shit... im sure id have at least 3000 posts.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  10. #10
    Valhallian_Snake is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Default

    On "Digging" and "Undigging" other people's posts and other breeds of "point-givinge systems.

    Frankly -- I do not belive in them.
    Ofcoure, most of us are nice, hornest people, who will at least try to be objective. But... If I remember, and understood correctly, something like this was established on Bladefoums, and removed later. This forums (mostly about knives) has a bubbling OT part, conserning politics. General population there are rather conservative conservative people. So quite common situation was:

    Somebody states that Iraq is a devil-infested place, which should be bombed untill levelled to the ground (grossly exaggerated for illustrative purposes). This poat gets many "digs" for being brave and true.
    Another person politely notes, that among terrorists there could be some normal people, who deserve not to be bombed. He is branded as "cheese-eating liberal surrender winey" and is "undigged" into oblivion.

    And this place was supposed to be ground for other people discussion. A few kids with too much time on there hands can easily reduce whole sustem into parody...

 

 
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