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  1. #11
    pentaelemental is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    In my humble opinion, good call Cold-NiTe. Integrity of the rules remain enforced as well as a suitable amount of mercy is given to the offender. Sometimes people really need a time out.

    Although one question here:
    If a person consciously knows what he is doing, can he or she feel incapacitated to control what he or she is doing, even if there is no external force or pressure? I was wondering if the subconsious self and unconscious self has more power over a person than the consious self.



  2. #12
    Tevesh is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    "Man is soverign until he harms another," in other words. Exactly what CN was talking about.

  3. #13
    lpzie is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    I like to see all gatherings of people as a community [more or less]. Communities have a very good reason for upholding the laws. I'll briefly quote a paper that helped me realize this...

    "If someone does violence to my community, or to members of the community on which I depend, then I suffer. We know that families of the victims of violent crimes suffer a psychological need for justice that resembles the need for 'closure' or the need for a 'rite of passage' to reflect the new state of affairs (resulting, for example, from a murder or rape or arson), and often to let them begin the actual grieving process. Persons are somehow built to need closure, to know that 'justice has been served', especially in the case of irreparable loss, such as murder. This is not "vengeance" per se, but the need to know that the community has acted in consistency with its deepest values of loyalty to its members. When the community does not express its valuation of the loss, by requisite and proportionate response to the perpetrator of the violence, then the community is weakened, and those closest to the injustice are the ones most disenfranchised from the community. In other words, the initial violence weakened the community; the lack of proportionate community response to that violence continues that degeneration, by alienating the families of the victim.

    Community-destructive acts of treachery, when unrequited by response on the part of the community concerning the value of the victim, continue "making destruction" within that community, begining with those closest to the victim(s). "
    And another one...

    "[Also], anything that weakens one member, weakens all members. I, as a community member, raised by it and dependent upon it for much of my operational life, simply do not have the right to harm it by levels of self-destruction (regardless of Western values of self-determination, rugged individualism, or psychological alienation!). For example, if I choose to consistently imagine killing a certain person in my community, but never actually do it, I still weaken the community by growing hypocrisy and psychological fragmentation within myself, and by probably achieving much lower levels of cooperation with said individual. Jesus himself pointed out the close relationship between inner 'value commitments' and outer 'events': "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." (Matt 15.19)

    Thus, even supposedly 'invisible' crimes against the community actually affect it negatively.

    We have all known people consumed by a vice, twisted by an obsession, enslaved by a bad habit, and we even have a term for certain types of this-"neurotic" (clinical defn: "inability to function socially or biologically").

    [And, we might point out, this kind of 'punishment' doesn't act as a deterrent to the perp in the least. If this counts as 'punishment', then it is generally NOT recognized or integrated as such by the perp! In fact, it unfortunately weakens the 'residual goodness' of the traitor even further, creating additional impetus toward community damage...]"
    And just for the heck of it...

    "God as community founder and constitutive law-maker, makes some explicit commitments when laws are established for the good of the community. Laws that are of the type “If you do this, then I will surely do that” are expressions of intent, will, and commitment. If God 'lies' about something, His personal integrity is suspect—even if there are no community consequences."
    That's about all I got to say. [I didn't really say anything at all]



    source: why just
    so when are you gonna unblock me?

    seriously.


    (damn i'm clever putting a msg in my sig. :hfive

  4. #14
    child_of_serenity's Avatar
    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    We love you Jakko!Even though you are doing time!

  5. #15
    pentaelemental is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Jakko's a smart person. I think he understands. I hope he comes back with more control over his thoughts and has more mental clarity.



  6. #16
    Cold-NiTe's Avatar
    Cold-NiTe is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I have the distinct feeling that he will.

    Quote Originally Posted by pentaelemental
    Although one question here:
    If a person consciously knows what he is doing, can he or she feel incapacitated to control what he or she is doing, even if there is no external force or pressure? I was wondering if the subconsious self and unconscious self has more power over a person than the consious self.
    I believe so. It's hard to agree to such a thing by most people, but there are people with horrible and controlling habits that they just cannot get rid of by themselves. This is why we have counseling and psychology. For each of us can be aware of a problem and yet lack the self control to correct it. Its just a different kind of problem for each person.

    I don't mean any kind of drug addiction though it falls in a similar category. Because chemical influence is an external force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tevesh
    "Man is soverign until he harms another," in other words. Exactly what CN was talking about.
    Haha, a very good summary.
    Dear cousin choppitychop89, you were a good relative, though I hardly knew ye.

  7. #17
    child_of_serenity's Avatar
    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Yeah, don't let the man bring you down Jakko!

  8. #18
    AShlyed is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    If only Jakko see all of your thread..
    En Taro Adun !!
    -- Yes, I speak Engrish
    Torncity

  9. #19
    Cold-NiTe's Avatar
    Cold-NiTe is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    He'll see it when he gets back. I'm fairly sure of it anyway.
    Dear cousin choppitychop89, you were a good relative, though I hardly knew ye.

  10. #20
    Chizabubble is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Good call. I like Jakko but rules are rules. ONLY six days remaining until we can welcome back the prodigal son.

    I love Steal! <3

 

 
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