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  1. #21
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Ok, I'll take this in parts as well:

    1. The US gives billions of dollars in aid to foreign countries each year. I don't see how that is not "humanistic," especially since we don't have to. And when countries that have extreme ideologies and crazy leaders(there is no other way to put it, their leaders are either completely blinded by rhetoric and inflammatory teachings or insane, which can be considered the same thing if you think about it), such as North Korea and Iran, admit that they are developing nuclear weapons, how do you think the US is going to respond? Rely on nuclear missles that are almost 20 years old for protection and as a last resort? Or will you accept that the US is made up of rational people by and large, and will adequately protect themselves and not allow thier(absolute) last line of defense to deteriorate to shambles?

    2.I don't like the UN, or respect them, neither, I think, do most Americans, especially after the oil-for-food scandal that most people seem to gloss over. As to the US's "excuse" for attacking Iraq, you obviously aren't thinking logically enough about this. This is not some new kind of gun, or a really cool new set of tinkertoys that Iraq was suspected of having. This was "weapons of mass destruction," notice the words "weapon" and "mass destruction." These are evil, illegal, barbaric weapons that can kill a multitude of people(Like when Sadaam used said WMD's to kill 4000 of his own people in 198. Merely the suspicion of those devices, which are highly illegal, is a cause to go to war, so that those weapons cannot be used against your own country in the future. I repeat, with weapons of this nature, that can kill thousands of people and be snuck into different areas of countries and used as giant suicide bombs, if you will, even the suspicion of such a thing is a cause for war. The US had concrete evidence at the time of the war for that suspicion. From the UN weapons inspectors that were not allowed into Iraq from 1998 to 2002, which only raised suspicion in the eyes of the US that something was going on, to the inspections going on in 2002, where there were rumors in the intelligence community that Iraqis would move out contraband materials just before inspectors arrived, and moved them back when they left; also, the head of the UN weapons inspections team said in January 2003 that, "not genuinely accepted U.N. resolutions demanding that it disarm." This was coming from a man that does not really like the US, and was accused of making excuses for Sadaam to try to stop a war with Iraq. Worst of all, there was a report that Iraq was attempting to buy weapons grade uranium. Taking all these into account, I would say that the US had ample reason to believe that Iraq might have WMD's, which is such a serious thing that war is a viable option in that case. The fact that none were found shows that the US was wrong in hindsight, but does not negate the fact that they had a good reason to go to war when they went to war, and now have a good reason to stay in Iraq a little longer for the time being, which is to try to clean up the mess they made.

    3. That is wrong. Just wrong. The rumor is based on a study done by extreme environmentalists, where they made a graph of the minimum barometric pressure of the hurricanes when they made landfall, and then they manipulated the results to prove their point, that hurricanes have been more powerful since 1970. Not only do I consider this one of the lowest things a intelligent person can do, try to falsify reports to create a hysteria that goes along with their goals, but the information is false. The basic trend of the graph is flat, meaning that hurricanes are just as powerful as they have always been. Like any graph, there are spikes in it, and there is one spike, still within normal bounds, since 1970, and they made it look like hurricanes are more powerful than ever, when really they are just manipulating data to suit their purposes. And if you want to talk about countries that are screwing up nature, the US has been a big polluter, but has been trying to change that. India and China, on the other hand, use massive amount of coal for energy, not a very good thing for the environment, and show no signs of trying to change. And just because the US refused to adopt some of the extreme policies set forth by the Kyoto Protocols, which I read and thought to be an idealistic, optimistic piece of crap that would never work, they are labeled as nature haters, when the US follows many environmental policies that other countries won't follow, and is trying to become more "green."
    I don't see anything wrong with disagreeing with the policies of my country, I just suggest you research what you hear a little more before you make arbitrary statements about an entire country of individuals.
    P.S. - I'll reiterate this again, I was not for the Iraqi war. Whenever we get involved in other countries, the world hates us. I say that the US pulls out of all dealings with other countries that it possibly can, and let the rest of the world fend for itself and see how it does without us, and let us deal with our own problems, we have enough inside our country to occupy us.
    P.P.S. - Where are you from Isalroc? Just curious.
    Edit: Noticed I made a lot of grammatical errors, will try to correct them. And that is a very wise move, Aikido, I am probably going to be flamed by many USA haters shortly.
    Last edited by Jakko1234; 03-04-2006 at 11:46 PM.


    "Let us cross over the river, and rest beneath the shade of the tree." - Last words of Stonewall Jackson

  2. #22
    Aikido is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    hmm... was going to reply to isalroc, but I dont really want to get involved with this one. I'll sit this baby out.

  3. #23
    crazydiamond is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    I'm not gonna quote on jakko since it's very long...but my response is this:
    1. you seems like a really good person who loves their country...which is good....
    2. with the US giving billions or millions of $ to other countries, they do it for a reason...not because they want to....so that later on they can push that country gov't for a favour or something like that....and please don't deny it....we all know that (not americans though).....
    3. sure iraq might have WMD at that time based on FALSE report which he KNEW about...but plz remind me again...which country has the most nuclear weapons?? oh....that's right US....and which country that EVER use WMD on people???oh....that's right US.....
    4. the US goes to war igonoring what other UN countries said...ie invading other soverign country.....and what if other country try to do the same??? the US would probably nuke them.....even if it wasn't the US that they're invading (no one is stupid enough to invade US to begin with)
    5. they're trying to pull off the same tricks with Iran lately....let's see how it goes eh?

    I'm not totally against US, it's just that they're gone to complete madness lately.....we all know that they're trying to control the world it's not a secret anymore....

    it's just how the gov't policies are soooo bad....they shut aljazeera network for showing their soldiers being killed, but at the same time they're showing their soldiers killing the enemies.....
    the list just keep going and going...even energizer can't keep up!!

    all in all i guess what i wanted to say is LEAVE THEM ALONE, let them solve their own problems.....if they ask for help, then help..but with no hidden agenda!!
    spend your $ on your country's poor people.....

  4. #24
    Sherman is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Yeah I'm not going to get too involved here either...
    But that global laser thing freaks me right out. The US really isn't even trying to pretend they're not becoming the World Police anymore. Too much power over the whole world in the hands of one country - of one man - is pretty damn scary. Especially when that man's Dubya. Good god.

    And that's aside from the ecological arguments already raised.

  5. #25
    Valleyman is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalroc
    This sounds so ridiculous, but since I heard USA have plans to modernize their nuclear arsenal I don't think it's that impossible they'll do something on this level of stupidity. They think about needless increases to their weapon power while children are starving in other countries. Not mentioning all the shit they did in middle east. Oh, and the agressions against the planet, maybe a few more hurricanes will teach them a lesson...
    One could most definatly say that my view on the current U.S goverment are not particularly nice but motherfucker I was hit by the hurricane and lost my fucking house. Before you say stupid shit think about who was affected by the hurricanes; the people asshole not the goverment. So you know what

  6. #26
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Ok, lets take this line by line, and before I start this, let me say that crazydiamond seems like a nice guy, and none of this is personal, just a response to what was said.
    Quote Originally Posted by crazydiamond
    I'm not gonna quote on jakko since it's very long...but my response is this:1. you seems like a really good person who loves their country...which is good....
    I wouldn't say that I love my country, per se. My priorities are:Christian first, Southerner second, Carolinian third, and American last. I will be the first to admit that the US does some screwed up things, but it is still my home, and I will defend it, and I get a little annoyed when someone(not you diamond) implies that the innocents that die from Hurricanes and other natural disasters are getting their just deserts for their actions, that kind of callous atittude just pisses me off.

    2. with the US giving billions or millions of $ to other countries, they do it for a reason...not because they want to....so that later on they can push that country gov't for a favour or something like that....and please don't deny it....we all know that (not americans though).....
    Sometimes the US is helping just to help, and sometimes because the country in question is our ally, and you are right, sometimes so that we might get something in return later or garner PR points with the country in question. However, I don't see anything wrong with that, that's basic politics, it has been practiced since the dawn of human civilization. The Romans helped the Greek colonies when they came under attack by Hellenistic forces, and later absorbed them, not because they wanted land, but because after being asked to help fight wars for the Greeks for the fifth time I believe, I'll double check my history later, they just stayed in Greece so that they wouldn't have to be called in again. The French similarly helped us, for their own gain, during the American Revolutionary War, as another example. I really don't see what you have against this, as long as both sides benefit from it.

    3. sure iraq might have WMD at that time based on FALSE report which he KNEW about...but plz remind me again...which country has the most nuclear weapons?? oh....that's right US....and which country that EVER use WMD on people???oh....that's right US.....
    Well, lets see...WMD's name came about when the German Luftwaffe in the Spanish Civil War in 1937 bombed a town to death, so that means that both Germany and Spain(since they allowed Germany to become involved) have "ever" used WMD's. In WWI, gasses and poisons were used by the British, French, Germans, and Russians. The Italians used chemical agents in Ethiopia in 1935. Japan used them in WWII. The Yemeni and Egyptians in 1966. Iraq used WMD's against Iranians and their own countryman in the 80's. The Iranians and Lybians both have used WMD's. Bosnians used them in their 1992-1995 war, The Soviet Union and China both made use of WMD's in their history. I just did some checking, and it turns out that Russia still has more nuclear weapons than the US. And yes, the report was false, which we now know from hindsight, but was serious enough that it had to be taken seriously. Oh yeah, I only mentioned the countries that have used WMD's, there are many more that posess them and have the capability of using them.

    4. the US goes to war igonoring what other UN countries said...ie invading other soverign country.....and what if other country try to do the same??? the US would probably nuke them.....even if it wasn't the US that they're invading (no one is stupid enough to invade US to begin with)
    The US war policy is not to use nuclear weapons in that fashion, I don't know where your getting your information from..oh wait, I do know...your own head, because you never bothered to check published, free reports detailing how the US would go about war and when it would use certain weapons. And as I said before, the idea that they had WMD's is a serious issue. There were UN sanctions against Iraq for having them. If Iraq did have WMD's, they were willfully defying the UN's stern command for accountability on this issue. If anything, after hearing that Iraq had apparently(remember, we have the benefit of hindsight, but the world leaders at that time didn't) been developing WMD's against the UN's express command, the other countries should have joined in to fight Iraq, instead of going against their own decrees. When you see it like that, it is actually the UN's fault for not living up to what they said. Yes, I don't like the UN one bit, and no, no country is stupid enough to invade the US now, in 40 years when we are weaker maybe, but not now.
    5. they're trying to pull off the same tricks with Iran lately....let's see how it goes eh?
    If by that you mean telling a totalitarian government with a crazy leader who doesn't think that the Holocaust happened to stop going against the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and developing weapons that can only do bad things when in the hands of extremist psychos whom most of the country doesn't support, but is affraid to speak up against, then yes, the US is up to their old tricks. Keeping you safe so that you can complain about it.

    I'm not totally against US, it's just that they're gone to complete madness lately.....we all know that they're trying to control the world it's not a secret anymore....
    That has got to be one of the most arrogant things ever written on this site. Americans love Europeans and try to emulate them(Which I think is wrong, because in my opinion I see Europe as a morally and ethically dead place, perverted to its very core in its ideals. Not all of Europe, mind you, just most of it. Again, just my opinion.). We love Asian culture, and celebrate African history and traditions. How can we try to take over places that we love so much? Really, I know no Americans who want to take over the world, Americans either love other cultures and respect them, or are like me, and want as little to do politically with the outside world as possible. I really don't know how you can come up with stuff like this.

    it's just how the gov't policies are soooo bad....they shut aljazeera network for showing their soldiers being killed, but at the same time they're showing their soldiers killing the enemies.....
    the list just keep going and going...even energizer can't keep up!!
    I can't think of any clips showing American soldiers killing their enemies, I think you have your information wrong. Maybe the media from another country showed that, but no American show aired anything like that as far as I'm aware of. Believe me, I live here, and I watch the news. And I think one of the reasons they shut down Al Jazeera was that it was a propaganda show for the opposite side during wartime, that is what you do during war.

    all in all i guess what i wanted to say is LEAVE THEM ALONE, let them solve their own problems.....if they ask for help, then help..but with no hidden agenda!!
    spend your $ on your country's poor people.....
    [/quote]
    Amen to that, brother. On this point, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Let the world work out its own problems, they all hate the US anyway, and why should we support a people that desise us? Let them work out their own problems.

    P.S. - Once again, I am not making any personal attacks against you, diamond, merely rebutting your comments. On a different note, I wonder if you could tell me where you are from, so that I can better understand if where you live is unfluencing your opinion on and of these issues.
    Last edited by Jakko1234; 03-05-2006 at 02:11 AM.


    "Let us cross over the river, and rest beneath the shade of the tree." - Last words of Stonewall Jackson

  7. #27
    Chizabubble is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Sure Bush may not be evil but he's certainly crazy. his new thing is that he talks to God. Great deffense though:
    example:

  8. #28
    Chizabubble is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    "why did you kill that person?
    God told me do."
    Joan of Ark!

  9. #29
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Nice double post. By the way, I can't find any comments that he made where he said that he directly talks to God, so I don't know where you are getting your information. And if you mean that Bush said he was led by God to do something, that is not crazy at all. I am a Christian, just like Bush, and through prayer and reading the Bible I was able to discern what I needed to do in events in everyday life. If he's crazy, then so am I, and I know I am not crazy. Really, you speak of Bush and the US doing radical things, but when you make outlandish accusations that you heard indirectly from your radical left friends and media, without even bothering to check the information's veracity, you just show your ignorance. I don't agree with most of the things you probably believe, but at least I research things from both sides of the fence and come to a conclusion based on what I have learned. You should try this before you go about making asinine statements like the ones you just made.


    "Let us cross over the river, and rest beneath the shade of the tree." - Last words of Stonewall Jackson

  10. #30
    Valleyman is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko1234
    Nice double post. By the way, I can't find any comments that he made where he said that he directly talks to God, so I don't know where you are getting your information. And if you mean that Bush said he was led by God to do something, that is not crazy at all. I am a Christian, just like Bush, and through prayer and reading the Bible I was able to discern what I needed to do in events in everyday life. If he's crazy, then so am I, and I know I am not crazy. Really, you speak of Bush and the US doing radical things, but when you make outlandish accusations that you heard indirectly from your radical left friends and media, without even bothering to check the information's veracity, you just show your ignorance. I don't agree with most of the things you probably believe, but at least I research things from both sides of the fence and come to a conclusion based on what I have learned. You should try this before you go about making asinine statements like the ones you just made.
    It wasn't so much he was saying he directly spoke to God but instead he said something more along the lines that he was doing Gods work. However, these very statements sum up a huge part of what is wrong with the current administration. The presidents religous beliefs can in no way affect U.S foreign and homeland policy. There is now such a large non-Christian portion of the U.S population that I personally see two alternatives; a massive exodus similar to the Calvanist exodus of England and other European nations or there will be a more violent revolution as was the case when the clergy controlled a huge part of the country in pre-revolutionary France.

 

 
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