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Thread: The Revelation

  1. #101
    child_of_serenity's Avatar
    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko1234
    I read the article. It seems to be very accurate, when taking into account that he used people in those days to write it, and they couldn't very well write about something they had no knowledge of and was too advanced for them, nor would God tell them. Also, I mentioned that the Israelites tended to round things in their counting and numeric systems, and there is very little difference between 3 and 3.146299..., especially when it was written several thousand years ago.

    Using 3 to define pi is terrible.. Because there is a big difference between 3 and 3.146299(and goes on and on and on...) When you’re doing trig that .14..... means a lot, which is why usually when you use pi you write it like this 3/pi and not give the value. Because that is more accurate and don't say that these people are primitive and didn't need the .14(on going numbers) because they were using pretty advanced math to build some of the stuff they did.

  2. #102
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Read the article we're talking about. It makes sense.
    Before the time of algebra or trigonometry, or decimal notation.
    Solely using geometry to calculate pie.
    Ancient Israelites historically rounded most numbers when scribing things.
    Here's a quote from the article as well:"{I}n defence of Solomon's craftsmen it should be noted that the item being described seems to have been a very large brass casting, where a high degree of geometrical precision is neither possible nor necessary."
    Written thousands of years ago.
    Translated several times, and copied innumerable times by scribes.
    Take all that into account, and I think you will see my reasoning as to why it makes sense.
    Last edited by Jakko1234; 02-23-2006 at 06:06 PM.


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  3. #103
    aallx is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Look, I wasn't insulting "God". I was just saying that "if" the bible is perfectly true. But because I doubt that, then I also doubt that a God would be idiotic and hypocritic.

    An example of idiocy if the bible was actually perfectly true:

    Creating a tree of knowledge in the garden, telling Adam and Eve not to eat it, when he, the omnipotent one, perfectly knew that they were going to eat the fruit anyway. Knowing this fact, he still got angry at them for eating the fruit? Is he an idiot? What, so he was just messing around with Adam and Eve? And then after Adam and Eve planted seeds, and became populous, they became evil, which God already knew would happen, being omnipotent and all, and yet he killed them all in the great flood? What the hell? So he really was just toying with humanity? Why create them on the first place? For stress relief? He always gets angry at things that he already knew would happen in the first place and yet let the things happen, and then punish the people at fault for doing what he already foresaw.
    Last edited by aallx; 02-23-2006 at 06:40 PM.
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  4. #104
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Aallax, I wasn't mad at you, I was annoyed by the other guy. But since you brought this up...

    God created us to love Him, but gave us free will, so that we would worship Him of our own choice, which gives Him glory. However, if you turned away from Him, it also brings Him glory to punish you, because He was a just God. Hence, He knew humans would screw up and He would have to punish us, but that is our own fault, not His, because free will is a gift that humans have misused. He was not selfish to create us solely for His own glory, because since He is perfect, He is above such things as pride and selfishness. After all, it is not conceit at all to want to be worshipped if you are perfect, because you are perfect, hence worthy of praise. I already covered all this in a previous post, by the way.

    Now, lets stop criticsizing Christianity, so I can stop having to defend it and get a crazy amount of posts in a short time, which makes me look like a spammer. Seriously, it seems like Christianity is the only religion that is fair game for criticsism, you don't see people here bashing Buddhism or Islamism or humanism, lets move on. Lets talk about something else, like Moonies or Heaven's Gate, or Mormons, or Bah'ai. Come on, give me a break and lets talk about something else!


    "Let us cross over the river, and rest beneath the shade of the tree." - Last words of Stonewall Jackson

  5. #105
    AShlyed is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    God Bless you, Jakko1234..
    And of course, others aalx, child of serenity, aikido, month, saizou, vondg, en everyone that , please forgive my memory capacity, i can't remember...
    En Taro Adun !!
    -- Yes, I speak Engrish
    Torncity

  6. #106
    coolerimmortal is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Ech...

    Sorry if this has already been mentioned; I didn't feel like reading the whole thread:

    If God is perfect, then why isn't the universe? Why is there that which he deems imperfect, ie "sin"? If there are imperfections there must be a flaw in the creator. A perfect being can't make a mistake or create a flaw, so he must be imperfect. But if he's imperfect he isn't omnipotent...and so on.

    I'm an atheist, obviously.

  7. #107
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Ack! Will it never end! Curse me and my inabilty to not respond!
    Anyway...
    Look 3 posts up, or, for a more in depth description, look about 3 pages back.


    "Let us cross over the river, and rest beneath the shade of the tree." - Last words of Stonewall Jackson

  8. #108
    Masterful_Norg is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by me
    I'll ellaborate later.
    Where was I (not that it really seems to make a ripple).

    On "no such thing as hard evidense", it would probably be faster to refer to the freud thread, but the basic rundown is this. The cause and effect relation or connection is not observable, it is only assumed, furthermore all "evidense" that leads to the formulation of a governing principle overseeing the process whereby evidence is produced requires induction. You must assume that no contradictory evidense exists and that your principle is correct (or that iron rules really exist). Additionally, the existance of matter and space is also assumed as are many other things.

    Concerning creation stories. There's a book by Zecharia Sitchin called "Genesis Revisited" that has an interesting take on the meaning of the sumerian creation story from which we get that of the Bible, and proposes that the gods and theological hierarchies were some disfunctional extra terrestrials. The book represents a lot of research and isn't a tin foil hat catalogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakko1234
    After all, it is not conceit at all to want to be worshipped if you are perfect, because you are perfect, hence worthy of praise.
    The question here is this. Do most people want to be worshipped by their cats, or goldfish? But before we delve into theopsychology it should be evident that "wanting" is "lacking" and what can a perfect being possibly lack?

    If God isn't fulfilled in and of itself and needs something else, then God isn't perfect and the creative motivation of the universe is just a desire for worship.

    This is another good point for the line of thinking in which god and the universe are equivalent terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by coolerimortal
    If there are imperfections there must be a flaw in the creator. A perfect being can't make a mistake or create a flaw, so he must be imperfect. But if he's imperfect he isn't omnipotent...and so on.
    Perhaps the universe is perfect and it's just one's perception that makes it seem imperfect though even that perception is perfect as well.

    If you think about it our "reality" as we call it isn't flawed. Meaning that it's "realness" is not insuperior so some other reality's realness. (And all "realities" are essentially just the singular "reality" collectively.) The universe is a perfect model of a universe, in that it perfectly fits the standard deffinition of the word "universe". It is a perfect replica of itself.

    Its also a lot easier to change a perception than it is to change the universe.
    Last edited by Masterful_Norg; 02-23-2006 at 07:45 PM.
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  9. #109
    Jakko1234 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Seriously, talk about something else, please. Can someone else handle this? Ashleyd? Nataku? I am getting really tired of this, can someone else rebut him, I need to study.

    Edit: If no one does by tommorrow, I will reply to this, but I don't have the patience to consider all your points right now, I will look at this thread again tomorrow.


    "Let us cross over the river, and rest beneath the shade of the tree." - Last words of Stonewall Jackson

  10. #110
    AShlyed is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    If you allow me to answer your question..
    According to Bible, God created Earth and all its dwelling in 1st week. Then, He Himself saw His creation is perfect(and again, I refer to Indon Bible, which may have miscommunication) until the day the devil in form of snake seduce Eve to eat the forbidden fruit and human after how-long-only-God-knows became you, me, us.
    WE were perfect, until that accident... So may I say God is perfect, yet we aren't?
    En if you talk about outside the earth, guess i dunno how to answer that. Just wait until The day come
    En Taro Adun !!
    -- Yes, I speak Engrish
    Torncity

 

 
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