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Thread: Truth

  1. #21
    aallx is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaom
    This kind of thing comes up a lot, especially amoung historians. They call it "historiography." Since throughout history, the best records were kept by the winning parties (history is written by the victor), it's the historians' job to sort through what actually happened and what is just propaganda.

    I think that the truth is absolute, but everyone has a different perception of it, which can lead to debate.

    For example, in any instance where something happens, that something really only happens a certain way. But everyone who was involved, witnessed that happening, or heard about it afterwards, will likely each have a different version of events to tell.

    Which is why gossip can be unreliable, since every time you hear it the story will be at least slightly different.

    Let's say that I walk into a store and buy a box of pocky. The person at the cash register, the people standing in line, and I all know that I did this. But, if there were someone who watched me pick up the pocky, but did not see me pay for it, who then saw me leave the store, they may think that I've stolen it.

    See? I actually bought the pocky, but not everyone would necessarily agree with that.

    Let's go here, for a minute. Is it true that Anna is alive? She was in 2006, but died in 2007. That truth is absolute. The answer to that question is the only thing that depends on time. What actually happened, when she lived and when she died, doesn't change.
    So basically, what your saying is that what happened has happened, there is no changing that? Hmm... agreeable. Come to think of it, the example I stated is a matter of fact and not truth. Facts are different from truths after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aster 1813
    Truth is all about perception, and persception comes from your body and senses and your senses can be decieved so i think truth is very abstract and definetly not concrete and absolute.
    Perception is different from person to person, so it is simply a matter of opinion. There is only one truth after all.

    There are three sides to every story:
    1) My side.
    2) Your side.
    3) What really happened.
    Last edited by aallx; 02-19-2006 at 07:55 PM.
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  2. #22
    Aster_1813 is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    If truth varies from one person to another than you can say thier is only one fact not one truth. Because truth can have many faces depending on the person who is viewing it as truth.

  3. #23
    kaom is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by aallx
    So basically, what your saying is that what happened has happened, there is no changing that?
    (...)
    There are three sides to every story:
    1) My side.
    2) Your side.
    3) What really happened.
    ...and that basically sums up my entire post. Wow, I wish I could just state things simply like that. It would make explaining myself so much easier.

    @Aster_1813

    That's exactly what we're talking about. But those are perceptions, not truth.

  4. #24
    darksoulzero is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    I would have to say that there is no absolute truth. Most facts derive from science, and within science it is evident that there is no such thing as absolution,yet rather there is truth, which exists within a marginal inexactitude. For example, we know that within an atom exists subatomic particles, and we know how and why these particles attract each; i.e. electron affinity, atomic radius, and ionization energy. Still with all the current knowledge that we have retained, new discoveries about the characteristic of the atom are currently being unfolded. Which is why the consistent increase in knowledge about one subject over the progression of time is evidence enough that there is now such thing as absolution. Well in the science world, to say the least.

    But there exists absolution in the sense that " Absolute power corrupts absolutely".
    Last edited by darksoulzero; 02-19-2006 at 08:32 PM.
    (i do not know what it is about you that closes and opens; only something in me understands the voice of your eyes is deeper than all roses) nobody, not even the rain, has such small hands.

  5. #25
    Aikido is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by aallx
    ex.
    Let's say that there was a person named Anna who is still alive this year, 2006.
    Is it true that Anna is alive? Yes it is true, Anna is indeed alive.
    Then she got into a car accident on 2007 and died.
    Let's then skip to 2008...
    Is it true that Anna, the same person in this example, is alive?
    So you see, truth changes, and therefore it is not absolute.
    poor example. Assuming that people are actually alive (metaphysics), it is true that Anna is alive in 2006. She is not alive in 2008. Your example refers to a state of being in a specific time. The truth, therefore, is based upon the state of being at that specific time. In 2008, or 10 seconds after you made the original claim, the state of being/time have changed, so the truth becomes based upon that state.
    ie: You finished eating 10 minutes ago. You do not say that you are eating now. The answer is self evident.

    @darksoulzero: but we are refering to absolute truth. Somewhere out there, there exists an absolute truth for the way atoms interact. What we believe is truth now is not necessarily compatible with that absolute. Truth is often a misnomer.

  6. #26
    aallx is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    @Aikido
    Yes, yes, kaom has already made it clear that that example is poor. It was a matter of fact and not absolute truth.

    @darksoulzero
    Facts are different from the truth.
    Last edited by aallx; 02-19-2006 at 09:18 PM.
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  7. #27
    KingDarr is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotusBoyRock
    ill say this... NOTHING is aboslute.... NOTHING.
    i dont think thats right, for example u take a gun shoot some guy in his brains and throat and heart 100 times each, then cut his arm and leg veins up then castrate him, then pour salt water all over him, them chop him up into little pieces, then smash the chopped up pieces into dust, isnt it absolute that he's dead?????

  8. #28
    Aikido is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    apologies to aallx/kaom.

    and why do you say facts are different from the truth? Actually, please define a "fact."

  9. #29
    aallx is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    A fact is a scientifically proven truth. Fact changes depending on conditions, and it also isn't the absolute truth because facts are based on human studies. Basically, facts are what experts believe to be right, so it is the same as an opinion with solid proof that people would find believable.
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  10. #30
    nataku_0 is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Ok, poeple are getting mixed up about truth and perception of truth, as a bunch already have mentioned and I just want to repeat that.

    Heres the small example that has come up again and again.
    Billy thinks that the blue bottle contains medicine when it indeed contains a harmful poison that kills when ingested.
    What Billy thinks is his perception, but no matter how much he BELIEVES that bottle is medicine, there is a truth and reality that works independent to what his believes, and that is that he will be poisoned and he drinks it.

    Now no one is here to tell you what IS the truth for every answer and situation. That would be the job of someone like God. But all theology asides, we can as humans can at least touch upon the simple conclusion that absolute truths do at least exist, and that conclusion really just comes from simple logic, as many previous posts have already shown.

    And once more, for all who state that absolute truths do not exist, that truth is based upon perspective and a sense of relativity, have all just stated what they think to be absolute truths themselves. So you will have to get past that illogical statement before even continuing any further.
    Last edited by nataku_0; 02-19-2006 at 11:03 PM.

 

 
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