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  1. #51
    Dante Obscuri is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    BAAAAAWWW they took down Napster, there's no longer going to be any free music on the Internet...
    OH WAIT A FUCKING SECOND!


  2. #52
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    98abaile is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Obscuri View Post
    BAAAAAWWW they took down Napster, there's no longer going to be any free music on the Internet...
    OH WAIT A FUCKING SECOND!
    To be fair, a lot of people knew that there were other ways to DL music, because the media made such a big song and dance about it, more importantly, these people were actively searching for and downloading it, not just googling and consuming it via a stream (this was before you tube became big).

  3. #53
    morten is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    BAAAAAWWW they took down Napster, there's no longer going to be any free music on the Internet...
    OH WAIT A FUCKING SECOND!
    Another idiot passing the thread, doesn't read anything, leaves a shit comment.

    Non relevant spam.

  4. #54
    Dante Obscuri is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98abaile View Post
    To be fair, a lot of people knew that there were other ways to DL music, because the media made such a big song and dance about it, more importantly, these people were actively searching for and downloading it, not just googling and consuming it via a stream (this was before you tube became big).
    Mate, it was the same back in the day. Napster was taken down, and you had a bunch of people freaking out because they thought there'd not longer be free music. However, there were always those people who knew how to search, and discovered other mediums such as iMesh, Morpheus, AudioGalaxy, and there were those who always used IRC. And it's the same now. There's people who have relied uniquely to online manga readers, and now that they are being taken down, they don't know what to do and freak out, whereas there's the other people who know where to get what they want. In fact, sources in the net have become far more diversified since the Napster days.

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    Another idiot passing the thread, doesn't read anything, leaves a shit comment.

    Non relevant spam.
    Woah, woah, woah... Seriously man, no need to get angry. The comment wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. But well, I guess it's the usual... Internet, serious bznz, etc...

    Either way, my point, I believe, holds true. Even if the manga readers were to fall, there's still a vast amount of other possible resources for anime and manga, yet most people freak out and complain. I won't deny that online manga readers could be somewhat convenient when you didn't want to download a chapter, and even more so when you wanted to find new series. However, as someone else (I believe abaile) pointed out, they were far too overt, and personally, I don't find it surprising that companies finally decided to put those sites down.

    As for the whole issue about people being ungrateful and whatnot, well dude, it's the Internet, as there are nice people, there are jerks. If you cannot take that much, I won't tell you something like GTFO, since, in the end, working on scanlations is your own initiative, but I guess you're mature enough to disregard any kind of ill-intentioned comments you may find.


  5. #55
    morten is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Obscuri View Post
    Woah, woah, woah... Seriously man, no need to get angry. The comment wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. But well, I guess it's the usual... Internet, serious bznz, etc...
    Sorry to break out on you. It was a good convo and I'm interested to keep it like that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Obscuri
    Either way, my point, I believe, holds true. Even if the manga readers were to fall, there's still a vast amount of other possible resources for anime and manga, yet most people freak out and complain. I won't deny that online manga readers could be somewhat convenient when you didn't want to download a chapter, and even more so when you wanted to find new series. However, as someone else (I believe abaile) pointed out, they were far too overt, and personally, I don't find it surprising that companies finally decided to put those sites down.
    As for now, the battle isn't over yet. There are still around 6-8 online readers that are hosting licensed stuff. Well, they all are targets, but Onemanga was surely the top of the cake. I had discussions about online readers in the past before and some people from inside scanlation pointed out that supporting them would only be a benefit for the whole community. People would come back from online readers and comment on scanlator pages. Which is yet doubtful to me. The other point was about that advertising was justified because of the costs of hosting an online reader. Some people said that the advertising would go 100% into hosting the site and there are no profits for OVs. Then, why are online viewers big companies with a combination of franchise pages? Of course there is profit and that should clearly be bothersome, mainly for those who scanlate for free and see their stuff get uploaded without their consent.
    Any online viewer won't be able to survive without advertising or donating. The discussions now to open up "invite only" sites for members doesn't cope with the fact of money involved. MangaToshokan was mainly put up as alternative for scanlators who still wanted their stuff getting uploaded, not resized into low quality and have control over it. The advertising was low and the uploading was left to the scanlators and assigned power uploaders. It's a pity that this site was shut down first and not the ones who are clearly the black sheeps.
    Of course it's the internet and there are always interests to rise money. It won't take long until a new system of profit online readers will be established after all the currently existing will be gone. Nature's law.

    Open Manga will be such a site people are hoping for. But by now, it will only be a paysite for unknown mangaka and their new series. A new (online) magazine for shounen and seinen. Some think that they will host the Big 3 as well, but they won't. What's laughable is that they Open Manga expects scanlators to translate and scanlate their series for free so they can sell it to english and other language speaking customers...
    Aside that, it will be a huge Facebook ripoff for everyone who wants to follow them. Web 3.0. It's a corporate world.

    As for the whole issue about people being ungrateful and whatnot, well dude, it's the Internet, as there are nice people, there are jerks. If you cannot take that much, I won't tell you something like GTFO, since, in the end, working on scanlations is your own initiative, but I guess you're mature enough to disregard any kind of ill-intentioned comments you may find.
    People have accustom themselves that online viewers and scanlation groups are here to pamper their asses. They became incapable of informing themselves about manga releases, reading information or just using google. They just come up to and ask:

    "Why isn't volume 15 out yet?"
    or

    My scanlations for chapter 8 fucking where?
    That's not how it goes. "If a volume isn't out yet then because it wasn't released in god damn Japan yet or it will simply take fucking time.
    And if you are impatient because mangastream takes 4 more hours to scanlate the newest One Piece chapter for you, then how about eating the crap out of your ass while you wait for it."

    For god sake, online viewers have breed a new class of manga reader who's incompetent into getting himself information of any form or feeling gratitude. It's just a system that feeds you through a tube and people have adapted and became dependent to it. So yeah, cut through the tubes and let the sloths start to get stuff on their own again.
    You only need baka to get yourself informed about anything inside the community.
    Last edited by morten; 07-28-2010 at 11:46 PM.

  6. #56
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    You only need baka to get yourself informed about anything inside the community.
    And a shocking number of people no longer know what Manga-Updates even is. Even on this site, people have been suggesting things like:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skrymir View Post
    If worse comes to worst, I would hope this site remains as sort of a hot spot where scanlators can inform their viewers as to when they have updated. If we are barred from hosting scanlated manga, perhaps we could at least act as a go between to inform people but not be a direct part of the illegal process itself.
    (from the I'm Back announcement thread)

    ...which is exactly what Manga-Updates does, right? Though I can't say that this is entirely thanks to manga viewers. I used to be the most active person in the Download Requests subforum, telling people where to get series, and almost every time all I did was go to M-U, find the series, and link them to the scanlator's site. There have always been people too lazy to go to a site that only gives them information, not downloads, or who don't know such a site even exists at all.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  7. #57
    Dante Obscuri is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    As for now, the battle isn't over yet. There are still around 6-8 online readers that are hosting licensed stuff. Well, they all are targets, but Onemanga was surely the top of the cake.
    I know mate, but online manga readers (i.e. those that host manga in English) are by far the easiest target for corporations. As for whether it is an intelligent move or not, I honestly won't say. I don't really know if manga scanlations (and online readers) affect positively or negatively the manga industry. I've never seen any charts or the like to be able to draw any type of conclusions. Though, I think if there were data available regarding this matter. Well, maybe there is.

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    Open Manga will be such a site people are hoping for. But by now, it will only be a paysite for unknown mangaka and their new series. A new (online) magazine for shounen and seinen. Some think that they will host the Big 3 as well, but they won't. What's laughable is that they Open Manga expects scanlators to translate and scanlate their series for free so they can sell it to english and other language speaking customers...
    Aside that, it will be a huge Facebook ripoff for everyone who wants to follow them. Web 3.0. It's a corporate world.
    I remember reading about this joke of a site some time ago. The deal about having fan translators do work for them for free, whilst they still charge for the service was far too ridiculous for me to even try to laugh at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    That's not how it goes. "If a volume isn't out yet then because it wasn't released in god damn Japan yet or it will simply take fucking time.
    And if you are impatient because mangastream takes 4 more hours to scanlate the newest One Piece chapter for you, then how about eating the crap out of your ass while you wait for it."
    I know man. I've met people like those far too many times. In fact, there are even jerks who, even if you tell them that scanlators are doing it for free, they'll give you a nonchalant reply like "Just because they're doing it for free doesn't mean they should do a shitty job" or something like that. My point is that people like these will always be there, and if you get into the scanlation deal, this is something you should know from the very beginning, and simply ignore them, no matter how annoying they may be. There are always nice fans. So, focus on those.

    So far, there's a project I've always wanted to start, which is Hanaukyō Maid Tai. I may start on it by the end of this year.


  8. #58
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    98abaile is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    You've been beaten to the post Dante.
    http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=648

    I wasn't too bothered by open manga expecting translators to do it for free, just as long as they didn't make a profit themselves (lets face it, if they paid the scanlators who in turn would have to pay their staff, the cost of scanlation would sky rocket as it does with current third. party publishers, this cost would then have to be passed on to the consumer; with no guarantee of quality and the price being inflated to probably more than most would be willing to pay, it wouldn't be as popular as it needs to be to fully take off)

  9. #59
    morten is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Obscuri
    I remember reading about this joke of a site some time ago. The deal about having fan translators do work for them for free, whilst they still charge for the service was far too ridiculous for me to even try to laugh at it.
    Of course. But every scanlator group is interested to do good or famous projects. There's either a motivation, because people wanna read it or you wanna read it yourself, or it's a good manga that is yet unknown. If people don't wanna read a titles then most of the times the scanlation is dropped.
    Now regarding OpenManga - who's gonna scanlate the good titles and who's gonna scanlate the not so good titles? If there are 3-4 different groups scanlating a titles, then what will be the measurement to pay for those (and what if the quality differs very much?). For Example, the most popular magazine out there is Weekly Shōnen Jump. The Big 3 are the most popular ones, secondary popular are titles like Bakuman, Beelzebub, Reborn!, Toriko, Gintama and maybe Psyren. And then there are about 8-10 titles in WSJ that no one really gives a fuck about, around half of the titles running in the magazine. WSJ has high standards and they kick out a popular title anytime they feel like it.
    Now, other magazines have even less popular titles, for example Weekly Young Jump (Gantz, Zetman). That's only 2 titles out of a magazine that hosts 14-16 different titles.
    What I wanna say, it's all a question of popularity and money if OpenManga will work or not. It will either be communism or darwinism.

    Back to topic.
    Yesterday MangaHelpers allowed to discuss the topic again and I read this here.

    After reading this, I realized that alot of scanlation websites will meet the same fate as onemanga's.
    I just hope that we'll always be able to enjoy reading the manga online, knowing that we, who live in far countries are not able to buy the magazines which means we can't read the manga if the scanlations are banned from the internet ... Onemanga was the first online rerading website I knew... It really troubles me to know that the website that allowed me to enjoy Naruto, Bleach, One piece, Gantz, Vagabond and alot of my favorite mangas will disappear.
    I always thought that the scanlation websites bring more fans and more fame to the mangakas... But it seems that everything is about money now.

    R.I.P Onemanga and thanks for everything ...
    I guess it summons up the delusions of most common manga readers today. I already said it, but they simply don't have a clue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Obscuri
    So far, there's a project I've always wanted to start, which is Hanaukyō Maid Tai. I may start on it by the end of this year.
    If it's not subbing then I'll have to say that there's already a scanlation team working on it. I hope the quality is good. If you need raws, look at jCafe24's winny forum or Raw Scans. There's also KMC which is a japanese forum for share hosting which is prolly the best source now.
    You can try this raw: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VP4UF2QE
    There's gonna be an OVA series and I guess this title will soon rise in popularity.

  10. #60
    Dante Obscuri is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98abaile View Post
    I wasn't too bothered by open manga expecting translators to do it for free, just as long as they didn't make a profit themselves (lets face it, if they paid the scanlators who in turn would have to pay their staff, the cost of scanlation would sky rocket as it does with current third. party publishers, this cost would then have to be passed on to the consumer; with no guarantee of quality and the price being inflated to probably more than most would be willing to pay, it wouldn't be as popular as it needs to be to fully take off)
    I'd assume the idea of the site is to make some profit. All the same, I may be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    Of course. But every scanlator group is interested to do good or famous projects. There's either a motivation, because people wanna read it or you wanna read it yourself, or it's a good manga that is yet unknown. If people don't wanna read a titles then most of the times the scanlation is dropped.
    Now regarding OpenManga - who's gonna scanlate the good titles and who's gonna scanlate the not so good titles? If there are 3-4 different groups scanlating a titles, then what will be the measurement to pay for those (and what if the quality differs very much?). For Example, the most popular magazine out there is Weekly Shōnen Jump. The Big 3 are the most popular ones, secondary popular are titles like Bakuman, Beelzebub, Reborn!, Toriko, Gintama and maybe Psyren. And then there are about 8-10 titles in WSJ that no one really gives a fuck about, around half of the titles running in the magazine. WSJ has high standards and they kick out a popular title anytime they feel like it.
    Now, other magazines have even less popular titles, for example Weekly Young Jump (Gantz, Zetman). That's only 2 titles out of a magazine that hosts 14-16 different titles.
    What I wanna say, it's all a question of popularity and money if OpenManga will work or not. It will either be communism or darwinism.
    That's a good question indeed, but I wonder how many scanlators would be interested in working on a paid site, without making any money.

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    Back to topic.
    Yesterday MangaHelpers allowed to discuss the topic again and I read this here.
    I guess it summons up the delusions of most common manga readers today. I already said it, but they simply don't have a clue.
    And just as I said, it's Napster all over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 98abaile View Post
    You've been beaten to the post Dante.
    http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=648
    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    If it's not subbing then I'll have to say that there's already a scanlation team working on it. I hope the quality is good. If you need raws, look at jCafe24's winny forum or Raw Scans. There's also KMC which is a japanese forum for share hosting which is prolly the best source now.
    You can try this raw: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VP4UF2QE
    There's gonna be an OVA series and I guess this title will soon rise in popularity.
    FUCK!
    Oh well, I'll wait until December and see how much they've progressed. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop it, since it's not much of a popular title. In fact, I probably wouldn't care about this manga, if it wasn't of a particular twist, but this happens midway through the story, and before that, the manga is just like any other ecchi-comedy-slice-of-life manga out there.

    If they keep up the good work, I don't know, I may try and pic up something else, like High School of the Dead, since the previous group dropped it because it got licensed in the US.

    As for the sites for raws, thank you very much. I already had all the raws for Hanaukyō Maid Tai, but if I end up working on anything else, those sites will be of great help.


 

 
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