Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 66
  1. #41
    be0wulf is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Purgatory
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Wow, Chit-Chat finally has a decent discussion topic again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    Do a lot of scanlators even still use IRC? I occasionally check scanlator sites to see what's up (next chapter, any delays, etc.) and I see very few still using IRC. Many either offer DDLs or (increasingly) on a forum you need to register to access. Maybe that'll change now, but I don't think it's just the new leechers who don't know how to use IRC.
    The more reputable ones still do. Forum access pretty much screams "I'm an attention whore" nowadays.

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    From the viewing point of a scanlator, there are readers that respect us and comment about our work on the threads at our forums. They are connaisseurs among manga readers and like to read alternative series beside the mainstream. I consider those as good acquaintances.

    Then there are the people who leave spam messages just to download, or just grab our stuff, or even insist to read our stuff online because they are too lame to download (I find it hilarious that some hardcore online readers even think that online readers are the scanlators and so deserve money). They don't really think much about the work scanlation groups put into to make them able to read mangas.
    The last group, often described as leechers or lurkers, are in my opinion just parasites. I would be be happy to exclude them from reading my work buuuuut that would be unfair, wouldn't it?
    Well, leechers are a tricky category in regards to scanlation, really. Oftentimes it seems scanlators expect some sort of "appreciation" even when their releases are of shitty quality. Where do you draw the line?

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    About the whole situation, Mangafox is now taking down series after series. I don't know if they'll survive that way but it seems they think they could.
    They're gone without the big 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    *ungrateful leecher =D*

    If I see one more person go off whining about how they can't afford to buy manga, they can't find it in their country, what will they do~~~ one more time, I am going to kick something so hard *snip*
    Manga elitist spotted. Jesus you're almost exactly like that Chara character on irchighway.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel View Post
    EDIT: the people who comment aren't the only people who are grateful. just because lurkers don't say anything doesn't mean they are appreciative of your efforts
    Agree. It seems incredibly egotistical to expect so much from the community when you are essentially riding off the original author/artist's work.

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Maybe because they want to try to avoid dealing with getting sued/shut down like others have/are now. You sound like one of those incredibly ungrateful leeches morten described. Don't want to look for it? Need a easy button? Tough shit, quit being lazy.
    He's probably just a....casual. DOHOHOHO I TROLL U.


    http://www.chunlikickedme.com

  2. #42
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kya~nada
    Posts
    17,429

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by be0wulf View Post
    The more reputable ones still do. Forum access pretty much screams "I'm an attention whore" nowadays.
    And there are a lot of those. This is, after all, the internet.

    They're gone without the big 3.
    Really? That would suck if so, because I've found they had a pretty good selection of series otherwise (and with chapters... often not good chapters, but chapters nonetheless that can't easily be found on other sites).

    Manga elitist spotted. Jesus you're almost exactly like that Chara character on irchighway.
    What.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that's a perfectly legitimate complaint generally. It does suck not to be able to find manga where you come from and then not be able to get it online, either. (Except when some of those whiners can find it in libraries. Those guys have no excuse. LIBRARIES!) I'm getting upset over that complaint used as if it were the only other option to reading online. As if there is no other possible way of getting manga and this is the end of the world for them because now they'll have to wait for volume releases and spend money on it and waa waa it's called IRC or DDLs. They're exaggerating how bad this is because they're either lazy or ignorant and assume that was the only option because it was the only one they knew about.

    And no, I wouldn't be like them if I'd started reading manga recently. My reaction to these things (usually with regard to music, though) is to go "fuck. Okay, now where can I go for illegal downloads?" and keep hunting.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  3. #43
    TheBard is offline Junior Member Newbie
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Maybe because they want to try to avoid dealing with getting sued/shut down like others have/are now. You sound like one of those incredibly ungrateful leeches morten described. Don't want to look for it? Need a easy button? Tough shit, quit being lazy.
    ahah sorry if I gave that impression, while I AM lazy, atm I am in fact downloading stuff using bakaupdates and lurking on #lurk waiting for the new bots :P
    I was just wondering why the differences in approach to basically the same issue between the scanlators and the subbers.

  4. #44
    morten is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    2,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital-Eon
    In fact, judging from the headless-chicken posts I see elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if a few scanlators actually stopped entirely out of overblown fear. Probably not anyone working on anything decent (just shoujo manga and speed scans of bad shounen), but a few, perhaps. They're kind of stupid..
    I've stopped reading anymore posts of people I don't know, especially at baka. Not to mentioned the idiots over at Mangafox or /a/... The main places for the ignorant vermin of the community...

    Most of the comments just revial that normal readers don't really get what's going on or know about the structure inside the inner ring of the community (scanlators, admins).
    At this point only the opinions of those are relevant as they hold the strings of everything together. It's up to them to decide what to do next and if they decide collectively to end with scanlating then 'atlus shruggs'...

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel
    i get that positive feedback makes scanlating worth it but if you're doing this just for the glory of it then that's the wrong reason.
    There's no such thing as glory or fame to get from doing scanlation. Maybe feeling inner pride to finish off some good work, but no more. I'm filling the black hole inside me with scanlating manga, I'm at a point where I can't do anything else. After finishing a volume, I can rest 1-2 days, then I have to work again. It's a hobby and it's fun while doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel
    EDIT: the people who comment aren't the only people who are grateful. just because lurkers don't say anything doesn't mean they are appreciative of your efforts
    Yes, I don't talk about those. The point are people who leave messages like this after registering in your forum:

    I only registered here to download this manga.
    That kind of attitude pisses me off. It's disrespectful and I delete such posts when I see them. First of, me and my team work for days on a volume and then we release it for free. We expect a smile and a handshake but not a spit in the face when offering our stuff FOR FREE. The admins who host sites and the scanlators are mainly a non benefit organization. We are a minor group inside the community, but we invest our time and money to give the silent majority something to read and discuss about. If you don't show respect then you will simply lose these people...

    Quote Originally Posted by be0wulf
    Well, leechers are a tricky category in regards to scanlation, really. Oftentimes it seems scanlators expect some sort of "appreciation" even when their releases are of shitty quality. Where do you draw the line?
    I don't know about the motifs of those who do a 'shitty' scanlation. Really. I can guess that amateurs doing it for short fame, but they either evolve into quality scanlators or just disappear. I don't wanna argue about those groups who really don't give a shit about their quality just to release something of the Big3 or suddenly popular titles like Sankarea.
    Kids that wanna be popular, I suppose...

    Quote Originally Posted by be0wulf
    Agree. It seems incredibly egotistical to expect so much from the community when you are essentially riding off the original author/artist's work.
    So scanlators are egoistical because they are working and offering their stuff for free? Wow, interesting logic there... Mother Therese was one egoistic whore, I guess...

    It's good that there's a whole new discussion about the motivations inside the community caused by the last events. There was never such a big thread before...
    I didn't allow the big online viewers to host my stuff because I knew somehow this would come. You can't expect making a fortune of hosting illegal stuff so openly, it was pure ignorance to do that...
    Last edited by morten; 07-26-2010 at 05:24 AM.

  5. #45
    TheBard is offline Junior Member Newbie
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    You can't expect making a fortune of hosting illegal stuff so openly, it was pure ignorance to do that...
    eheheh all too true, it was infact surprising that they lasted for all those years without anyone doing anything about it, but it was to be expected with that kind of exposure. They weren't even trying to be discrete. And imho that was their biggest fault, there's plenty of website around with not-so-legal content, be it anime, manga, comics, games, music or whatever that noone ever bothered, but when you do your best to end up high in google rankings and getting more and more hits to make money... that's just asking for it

    The fact they lasted so much tho sorta made all the places that provided downloads for a lot of manga in the same place mostly withered and died (for example I remember that before viewers time I used a forum that indexed ed2k links of a LOT of manga)

  6. #46
    98abaile's Avatar
    98abaile is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    An Englishman in a shithole somewhere in Wales.
    Posts
    7,892

    Default

    Wow, OMRs (Online Manga Reader) are really getting some stick now. Most people are expressing the same feelings I have. Their size and notoriety, the things to blame for opening up the community to the ignorant and ungreatful masses are also the things that have brought about these series of events. It's a classic tower of babel story.

    I sympathise with morten about ungreatful leeches. When releases for Futari Ecchi stopped, StopTazmo Ecchi Fans (STEF) stepped in to keep scanlation going until a new scanlator stepped in. We were conciously releasing low to medium quality scan (we were really just a bunch of amatures trying to fill the gap) and even admitted to it. But even though we were the only group arround we still got complaints about the quality. What these idiots couldn't understand was that we were giving up our free time and putting in a lot of effort to try to bring the series to the community after a long absence. There were no delusions of granduer, we were doing it as fans for fans, and to see such negative comments really dug deep.
    So when morten says it is offensive to just type "I only registered here to download this manga.", it is offensive. you don't have to make a groveling letter of appreciation, you don't even have to be privately sincere, but putting a bit of effort into your post or at least saying thank you, should be a given as a mark of respect or politeness if nothing else.

    To bring back that age old community mantra: "Don't complain about what you are getting illegally, for free."

  7. #47
    mystic_guard_sinoel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    The 14th Moon
    Posts
    5,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    That kind of attitude pisses me off. It's disrespectful and I delete such posts when I see them. First of, me and my team work for days on a volume and then we release it for free. We expect a smile and a handshake but not a spit in the face when offering our stuff FOR FREE. The admins who host sites and the scanlators are mainly a non benefit organization. We are a minor group inside the community, but we invest our time and money to give the silent majority something to read and discuss about. If you don't show respect then you will simply lose these people...
    why do you expect a smile and a handshake? and it's not like you could sell your scans anyways, the fact that it is free is irrelevant

    i think you should value the people who do appreciate you more than the malicious people.

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    So scanlators are egoistical because they are working and offering their stuff for free? Wow, interesting logic there... Mother Therese was one egoistic whore, I guess...
    he's saying what differance does an e-pat on the back make?

    if you didn't get any nice comments would you quit? because that is egotistical.

    @stubby i think it's a tad elitist to blame people who are simply ignorant of the deeper nuances of the manga community.

    if you didn't care about quality and everything was in one place it makes sense that people just use online readers and nothing else.

  8. #48
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kya~nada
    Posts
    17,429

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    Most of the comments just revial that normal readers don't really get what's going on or know about the structure inside the inner ring of the community (scanlators, admins).
    At this point only the opinions of those are relevant as they hold the strings of everything together. It's up to them to decide what to do next and if they decide collectively to end with scanlating then 'atlus shruggs'...
    I'm starting to wonder how many of those normal readers would be reading manga online if not for those big online reader sites. Judging from the amount of traffic they got... So maybe things would have been very different today if those sites had never existed (but not very different from the years before they came into existence). How many people would have never read series online if they weren't given the easiest way to do it? =/

    And I agree with morten and 98 on the appreciation thing. I don't think you need to praise a group for all it's done... I don't even *really* care if they say thank you or not (I, um, don't >_>). Saying nothing would still be better than saying something rude like that. It's not appreciation at all. It's like saying "you guys inconvenienced me so much that I had to register just to get what I want, and I am not happy about it". And maybe that's how you feel, but you don't say that... not like that. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it", right?
    ~Digital_Eon~




  9. #49
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel View Post

    @stubby i think it's a tad elitist to blame people who are simply ignorant of the deeper nuances of the manga community.

    if you didn't care about quality and everything was in one place it makes sense that people just use online readers and nothing else.
    Dude, you realize it's everyone to blame right? This shit is not legal, period. Translations are, but distribution of the scans isn't. Everyone is to blame, but who shares the most blame is a different story. It's not like scanslators who distribute this stuff aren't to blame, but then again without them, there's basically no problem legal because there's nothing to distribute, right? It's not elitist, it's just a fact that people who are ignorant of the deeper naunces of the manga community are a big problem. Especially in this case because they were apart of one of the big problems.

    The difference is, up until online readers, everything was relatively quiet except for notices going out every now and then to take down certain series, or in a sort of rare case, shutting down one site. There wasn't this mass coalition from multiple publishers working together to shut people down before. So why is that exactly? What could have possibly changed in the past few years that would change publisher's minds about not aggressively attacking sites before compared to now? Oh right, online readers have gotten insanely popular and access of manga has gotten insanely easy. Why else are they targeting the biggest online readers first? They're the most troublesome and the easiest to take down first. You can't deny that online readers are a huge threat, it simply offers way too much freedom and ease for anyone to access and gets way too much traffic to be ignored. Doesn't help either that Manga themselves haven't been doing well and they've been blaming scanslators and other distributors.

    It doesn't matter if you didn't care about the quality, fact of the matter is online readers has brought a whole lot of trouble to everyone. Though it's not like they're soley to blame, but still a big portion of it.

    @Be0- oh you.
    Street Fighter > All


    http://vphamv.deviantart.com/

  10. #50
    98abaile's Avatar
    98abaile is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    An Englishman in a shithole somewhere in Wales.
    Posts
    7,892

    Default

    Another factor to consider is that the vast majority of users on the reader sites are completely ignorant of the community (as someone said (was it morten?), some people are dumb enough to think that the reader sites are the scanlators). These are the sorts of people who are probably likely to buy manga but instead read it online because they can easily do so for free. If the reader sites were to go down, these people wouldn't know where to get manga and are likely to start buying again.

    On the other hand, people like us who have been reading manga as a hobby for a long time, are well embedded in the comunity, know where to get manga and are not slaved to reader sites, are unlikely to be much affected by the closing down of many sites (I dare say none of us download from ST anymore and probably don't even use agregators, instead preffering to get the latest releases straight from the source), in fact the only site whose closure would do major damage to the community is mangaupdates. Closing down commuity sites like ST wouldn't achieve as much as closing down a reader site, which is probably why publishers have tended to let it slide for so long. So when people choose to lay a major portion of the blame on reader sites, it's not without good reason.

 

 
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
vBulletin Skin by: ForumThemes.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79