Wow, Chit-Chat finally has a decent discussion topic again.
Wow, Chit-Chat finally has a decent discussion topic again.
Really? That would suck if so, because I've found they had a pretty good selection of series otherwise (and with chapters... often not good chapters, but chapters nonetheless that can't easily be found on other sites).They're gone without the big 3.
What.Manga elitist spotted. Jesus you're almost exactly like that Chara character on irchighway.
Don't get me wrong, I think that's a perfectly legitimate complaint generally. It does suck not to be able to find manga where you come from and then not be able to get it online, either. (Except when some of those whiners can find it in libraries. Those guys have no excuse. LIBRARIES!) I'm getting upset over that complaint used as if it were the only other option to reading online. As if there is no other possible way of getting manga and this is the end of the world for them because now they'll have to wait for volume releases and spend money on it and waa waa it's called IRC or DDLs. They're exaggerating how bad this is because they're either lazy or ignorant and assume that was the only option because it was the only one they knew about.
And no, I wouldn't be like them if I'd started reading manga recently. My reaction to these things (usually with regard to music, though) is to go "fuck. Okay, now where can I go for illegal downloads?" and keep hunting.
I was just wondering why the differences in approach to basically the same issue between the scanlators and the subbers.
I've stopped reading anymore posts of people I don't know, especially at baka. Not to mentioned the idiots over at Mangafox or /a/... The main places for the ignorant vermin of the community...Originally Posted by Digital-Eon
Most of the comments just revial that normal readers don't really get what's going on or know about the structure inside the inner ring of the community (scanlators, admins).
At this point only the opinions of those are relevant as they hold the strings of everything together. It's up to them to decide what to do next and if they decide collectively to end with scanlating then 'atlus shruggs'...
There's no such thing as glory or fame to get from doing scanlation. Maybe feeling inner pride to finish off some good work, but no more. I'm filling the black hole inside me with scanlating manga, I'm at a point where I can't do anything else. After finishing a volume, I can rest 1-2 days, then I have to work again. It's a hobby and it's fun while doing.Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel
Yes, I don't talk about those. The point are people who leave messages like this after registering in your forum:Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel
That kind of attitude pisses me off. It's disrespectful and I delete such posts when I see them. First of, me and my team work for days on a volume and then we release it for free. We expect a smile and a handshake but not a spit in the face when offering our stuff FOR FREE. The admins who host sites and the scanlators are mainly a non benefit organization. We are a minor group inside the community, but we invest our time and money to give the silent majority something to read and discuss about. If you don't show respect then you will simply lose these people...I only registered here to download this manga.
I don't know about the motifs of those who do a 'shitty' scanlation. Really. I can guess that amateurs doing it for short fame, but they either evolve into quality scanlators or just disappear. I don't wanna argue about those groups who really don't give a shit about their quality just to release something of the Big3 or suddenly popular titles like Sankarea.Originally Posted by be0wulf
Kids that wanna be popular, I suppose...
So scanlators are egoistical because they are working and offering their stuff for free? Wow, interesting logic there... Mother Therese was one egoistic whore, I guess...Originally Posted by be0wulf
It's good that there's a whole new discussion about the motivations inside the community caused by the last events. There was never such a big thread before...
I didn't allow the big online viewers to host my stuff because I knew somehow this would come. You can't expect making a fortune of hosting illegal stuff so openly, it was pure ignorance to do that...
Last edited by morten; 07-26-2010 at 05:24 AM.
The fact they lasted so much tho sorta made all the places that provided downloads for a lot of manga in the same place mostly withered and died (for example I remember that before viewers time I used a forum that indexed ed2k links of a LOT of manga)
Wow, OMRs (Online Manga Reader) are really getting some stick now. Most people are expressing the same feelings I have. Their size and notoriety, the things to blame for opening up the community to the ignorant and ungreatful masses are also the things that have brought about these series of events. It's a classic tower of babel story.
I sympathise with morten about ungreatful leeches. When releases for Futari Ecchi stopped, StopTazmo Ecchi Fans (STEF) stepped in to keep scanlation going until a new scanlator stepped in. We were conciously releasing low to medium quality scan (we were really just a bunch of amatures trying to fill the gap) and even admitted to it. But even though we were the only group arround we still got complaints about the quality. What these idiots couldn't understand was that we were giving up our free time and putting in a lot of effort to try to bring the series to the community after a long absence. There were no delusions of granduer, we were doing it as fans for fans, and to see such negative comments really dug deep.
So when morten says it is offensive to just type "I only registered here to download this manga.", it is offensive. you don't have to make a groveling letter of appreciation, you don't even have to be privately sincere, but putting a bit of effort into your post or at least saying thank you, should be a given as a mark of respect or politeness if nothing else.
To bring back that age old community mantra: "Don't complain about what you are getting illegally, for free."
i think you should value the people who do appreciate you more than the malicious people.
if you didn't get any nice comments would you quit? because that is egotistical.
@stubby i think it's a tad elitist to blame people who are simply ignorant of the deeper nuances of the manga community.
if you didn't care about quality and everything was in one place it makes sense that people just use online readers and nothing else.
And I agree with morten and 98 on the appreciation thing. I don't think you need to praise a group for all it's done... I don't even *really* care if they say thank you or not (I, um, don't >_>). Saying nothing would still be better than saying something rude like that. It's not appreciation at all. It's like saying "you guys inconvenienced me so much that I had to register just to get what I want, and I am not happy about it". And maybe that's how you feel, but you don't say that... not like that. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it", right?
The difference is, up until online readers, everything was relatively quiet except for notices going out every now and then to take down certain series, or in a sort of rare case, shutting down one site. There wasn't this mass coalition from multiple publishers working together to shut people down before. So why is that exactly? What could have possibly changed in the past few years that would change publisher's minds about not aggressively attacking sites before compared to now? Oh right, online readers have gotten insanely popular and access of manga has gotten insanely easy. Why else are they targeting the biggest online readers first? They're the most troublesome and the easiest to take down first. You can't deny that online readers are a huge threat, it simply offers way too much freedom and ease for anyone to access and gets way too much traffic to be ignored. Doesn't help either that Manga themselves haven't been doing well and they've been blaming scanslators and other distributors.
It doesn't matter if you didn't care about the quality, fact of the matter is online readers has brought a whole lot of trouble to everyone. Though it's not like they're soley to blame, but still a big portion of it.
@Be0- oh you.
Street Fighter > All
Another factor to consider is that the vast majority of users on the reader sites are completely ignorant of the community (as someone said (was it morten?), some people are dumb enough to think that the reader sites are the scanlators). These are the sorts of people who are probably likely to buy manga but instead read it online because they can easily do so for free. If the reader sites were to go down, these people wouldn't know where to get manga and are likely to start buying again.
On the other hand, people like us who have been reading manga as a hobby for a long time, are well embedded in the comunity, know where to get manga and are not slaved to reader sites, are unlikely to be much affected by the closing down of many sites (I dare say none of us download from ST anymore and probably don't even use agregators, instead preffering to get the latest releases straight from the source), in fact the only site whose closure would do major damage to the community is mangaupdates. Closing down commuity sites like ST wouldn't achieve as much as closing down a reader site, which is probably why publishers have tended to let it slide for so long. So when people choose to lay a major portion of the blame on reader sites, it's not without good reason.