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  1. #31
    mystic_guard_sinoel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Exactly what Be0 described himself and my response to CPR. He's not going after manga every day, he's just reading it whenever and however is the easiest way to get it.

    I never declared myself anything, nor did I say anything about "hardcore" readers. I'm just talking about the majority who read the scanslations.
    so being some kind of manga masochist and making things harder on yourself makes you not casual? i read manga everyday, usually on online readers; what does that make me?

    there are no clear cut lines lines in who is casual or not and even if you decide to point fingers at online readers that doesn't mean the people who use them are the problem or even a problem at all


  2. #32
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel View Post
    so being some kind of manga masochist and making things harder on yourself makes you not casual? i read manga everyday, usually on online readers; what does that make me?

    there are no clear cut lines lines in who is casual or not and even if you decide to point fingers at online readers that doesn't mean the people who use them are the problem or even a problem at all
    No where did I say you need to be a masochist and make things hard for yourself to be considered not casual. You're really trying to pin something on me that I haven't said. Read over what I said before to CPR. Considering you read it every day, usually on online readers, but you download often enough? Probably more than a casual reader.

    There's more awareness, much more ease of access, as well as the fact that they've got a whole lot more traffic than any type of DDL/IRC/Torrent site is a pretty big deal actually. Especially considering some online viewers such as OM was one of to top visited sites on Google, in the top 1,000's in fact.
    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...l-remove-manga

    It's nothing to sneeze at.
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  3. #33
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Do a lot of scanlators even still use IRC? I occasionally check scanlator sites to see what's up (next chapter, any delays, etc.) and I see very few still using IRC. Many either offer DDLs or (increasingly) on a forum you need to register to access. Maybe that'll change now, but I don't think it's just the new leechers who don't know how to use IRC.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  4. #34
    morten is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    Do a lot of scanlators even still use IRC? I occasionally check scanlator sites to see what's up (next chapter, any delays, etc.) and I see very few still using IRC. Many either offer DDLs or (increasingly) on a forum you need to register to access. Maybe that'll change now, but I don't think it's just the new leechers who don't know how to use IRC.
    We are currently installing one, still need some good bots to upload all our stuff...
    It will be named #Cerberus. But I don't think that scanlation teams will be targeted, though I have made our scanlation area invisible for non members just to be on the safe site.
    But IRC will have a revival now. The situation has changed fundamentally, we are now very aware that we are monitored by the whole japanese and american manga publishers industry and it's definitely not a good feeling...

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel
    what does casual reader even mean? where do you draw the line between a casual and not a casual? cause declaring yourself not casual seems like you're some manga overlord and all the peasants using online readers is what inconvenienced you. you can't make up arbitrary lines with no real criteria to assist your point and appeal to most people's opinion that they are "hardcore"

    oh gosh dat kinda sounds mean. dgaf stubby is a big boy

    i mentioned why i used online readers earlier in this thread: there's no reason to download the majority of what i read and be0 has the same thought process
    From the viewing point of a scanlator, there are readers that respect us and comment about our work on the threads at our forums. They are connaisseurs among manga readers and like to read alternative series beside the mainstream. I consider those as good acquaintances.

    Then there are the people who leave spam messages just to download, or just grab our stuff, or even insist to read our stuff online because they are too lame to download (I find it hilarious that some hardcore online readers even think that online readers are the scanlators and so deserve money). They don't really think much about the work scanlation groups put into to make them able to read mangas.
    The last group, often described as leechers or lurkers, are in my opinion just parasites. I would be be happy to exclude them from reading my work buuuuut that would be unfair, wouldn't it?

    About the whole situation, Mangafox is now taking down series after series. I don't know if they'll survive that way but it seems they think they could.

  5. #35
    TheBard is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Must... resist... urge... to troll... egomaniac scanlators... :P

  6. #36
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    *ungrateful leecher =D*

    If I see one more person go off whining about how they can't afford to buy manga, they can't find it in their country, what will they do~~~ one more time, I am going to kick something so hard you'll find it in the goddamned ocean. What does it say about leechers that they now think reading online was the only way to read manga without actually buying the volume? Some of us are lazy and choose not to download, sure, but I'm shocked at the number of people who don't seem to know downloads exist. I guess we can blame sites like Youtube for that, too - who downloads videos when you can just stream them and forget about them when you're done?

    ...but it's gotten to the point where I almost feel happy this is happening, even at the inconvenience to myself, just because of those morons.

    morten: Okay, so that's what your group is doing, but you've been in this for a while. A lot of scanlation groups are new or made up of new members who have never used IRC and may not even really know what it is. My above paragraph makes it clear that there are many idiots who don't know direct downloads exist - scanlators obviously aren't quite that ignorant, but I see more and more instances of "DDLs/in the forums" than "get it on IRC", and every single "it's on IRC" scanlation group has been around for a while. I don't think we'll necessarily see IRC getting used more often, except by those of us who do know how to use it and once did (and stopped because online readers made us lazy). In fact, judging from the headless-chicken posts I see elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if a few scanlators actually stopped entirely out of overblown fear. Probably not anyone working on anything decent (just shoujo manga and speed scans of bad shounen), but a few, perhaps. They're kind of stupid..

    Edit: Turns out I'm exaggerating and a lot more scanlators have IRC channels than I thought. So I guess they do know how to use IRC. Still, the fact that pretty much every site offers some form of direct download, even if you have to register on a forum and post to get them, says something about the quality of the leechers now. And of course, there are still groups without IRC.

    Edit 2: I saw another post going "oh well, there's always mangastream". Good to see the love for any series that isn't a popular shounen action one. [/sarcasm]
    ~Digital_Eon~




  7. #37
    TheBard is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    I'm lucky enough to live in a city full of comic book stores, and that most of the manga get translated and sold for cheap... but still I want to read the chapter asap when they come out for the popular series and just be able to read them for the unknown ones

    Still having to look site-by-site or even worse each irc channel at a time to see if there's something new and download it it's a LOT of an hassle.
    Also I NEVER understood why manga scanlators keep doing their best to have people go get the mangas the hard way uploading them on their site or irc, requiring to register, not using manga torrent trackers like tokyotosho, etc :P

  8. #38
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBard View Post
    Still having to look site-by-site or even worse each irc channel at a time to see if there's something new and download it it's a LOT of an hassle.
    That's what Manga-Updates is for.

    Also I NEVER understood why manga scanlators keep doing their best to have people go get the mangas the hard way uploading them on their site or irc, requiring to register, not using manga torrent trackers like tokyotosho, etc :P
    Probably to protect themselves and make them harder to find. I can't really blame them after what's happened recently. Not that scanlators do get targeted like that (that we know of?) but still. Though I think posting x non-spammy posts to get access to a download section is a bit extreme, personally.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  9. #39
    mystic_guard_sinoel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    No where did I say you need to be a masochist and make things hard for yourself to be considered not casual. You're really trying to pin something on me that I haven't said. Read over what I said before to CPR. Considering you read it every day, usually on online readers, but you download often enough? Probably more than a casual reader.
    the part where taking the easiest route makes you casual.

    There's more awareness, much more ease of access, as well as the fact that they've got a whole lot more traffic than any type of DDL/IRC/Torrent site is a pretty big deal actually. Especially considering some online viewers such as OM was one of to top visited sites on Google, in the top 1,000's in fact.
    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...l-remove-manga

    It's nothing to sneeze at.[/QUOTE]

    i definitely saw something in your post that you didn't mean but i think it's wrong to blame people who only know about manga from using online readers. if that is their only experience with it and they find everything they want to read in one place then there's no reason for them to go out of their way and download unless they want to save stuff

    /sympathyfornoobs

    Quote Originally Posted by morten View Post
    From the viewing point of a scanlator, there are readers that respect us and comment about our work on the threads at our forums. They are connaisseurs among manga readers and like to read alternative series beside the mainstream. I consider those as good acquaintances.

    Then there are the people who leave spam messages just to download, or just grab our stuff, or even insist to read our stuff online because they are too lame to download (I find it hilarious that some hardcore online readers even think that online readers are the scanlators and so deserve money). They don't really think much about the work scanlation groups put into to make them able to read mangas.
    The last group, often described as leechers or lurkers, are in my opinion just parasites. I would be be happy to exclude them from reading my work buuuuut that would be unfair, wouldn't it?

    About the whole situation, Mangafox is now taking down series after series. I don't know if they'll survive that way but it seems they think they could.
    i get that positive feedback makes scanlating worth it but if you're doing this just for the glory of it then that's the wrong reason.

    i'll edit/make another post later

    EDIT: the people who comment aren't the only people who are grateful. just because lurkers don't say anything doesn't mean they are appreciative of your efforts
    Last edited by mystic_guard_sinoel; 07-25-2010 at 02:14 PM.


  10. #40
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystic_guard_sinoel View Post
    the part where taking the easiest route makes you casual.

    i definitely saw something in your post that you didn't mean but i think it's wrong to blame people who only know about manga from using online readers. if that is their only experience with it and they find everything they want to read in one place then there's no reason for them to go out of their way and download unless they want to save stuff

    /sympathyfornoobs



    i get that positive feedback makes scanlating worth it but if you're doing this just for the glory of it then that's the wrong reason.

    i'll edit/make another post later

    EDIT: the people who comment aren't the only people who are grateful. just because lurkers don't say anything doesn't mean they are appreciative of your efforts
    I never said taking the easy route makes you casual, I said that's what majority of the casual readers do, meaning not everyone but most do when it comes to casual readers. You're seeing something that isn't there.

    And if it's because of these big online reader sites and the readers themselves that may be the primary reason the publishers have become more aggressive, they aren't to blame even if they didn't know? Plus what of the fact that some sites didn't listen to some of the scanslators who asked online reader sites not to post their scans but continued to do so anyways?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBard View Post

    Still having to look site-by-site or even worse each irc channel at a time to see if there's something new and download it it's a LOT of an hassle.
    Also I NEVER understood why manga scanlators keep doing their best to have people go get the mangas the hard way uploading them on their site or irc, requiring to register, not using manga torrent trackers like tokyotosho, etc :P
    Maybe because they want to try to avoid dealing with getting sued/shut down like others have/are now. You sound like one of those incredibly ungrateful leeches morten described. Don't want to look for it? Need a easy button? Tough shit, quit being lazy.
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