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  1. #1
    dna2playboy is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Default Rainn Wilson's CNN Article

    Stop Religious Persecution in Iran

    I'm just shocked to know Rainn Wilson is Baha'i. I had a friend in High School who was Baha'i. Nicest guy I've ever met.

  2. #2
    overmind is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    That sounds like a good religion, and one that lacks in hate towards others.

  3. #3
    R3dKnight is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    that's what they first said about
    Christianity and Islam.

    even Buddhist have the fucking Shaolin as a armed militia

  4. #4
    dna2playboy is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Christianity and Islam are religions of peace. Don't blame the religion, blame the people. After all they are human and us humans are fallible.

    I think it's admirable for Rainn Wilson to speak up about the problems his people are facing. I love it when celebrities take part in politics(i.e. Angelina)

    edited*
    Last edited by dna2playboy; 02-21-2009 at 07:26 AM.

  5. #5
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by dna2playboy View Post
    Christianity and Islam are religions of peace. Don't blame the religion, blame the people.
    You know, I hear this a lot, and it really doesn't make sense at all. Because religions do include moral teachings, and therefore they are at least partly responsible for the actions of their followers, either by encouraging or condoning harmful actions or by failing to have rules against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna2playboy
    After all they are human and us humans are infallible.
    I assume that you meant to say that humans are fallible. And by that argument you can't blame any ideology for anything its followers do, since no one is infallible in that case either. Which would lead us to the slightly strange conclusion that there's nothing wrong with, say, Nazism, it's just that the nazis are bad people.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna2playboy
    I think it's admirable for Rainn Wilson to speak up about the problems his people are facing. I love it when celebrities take part in politics(i.e. Angelina)
    In principle his argument is true. It still is a sad fact that people get persecuted because of entirely arbitrary reasons such as their religious beliefs. Then again, we're talking about Iran here so what can you do? As long as the country remains a theocracy it is highly unlikely that the oppression will go away.

  6. #6
    dna2playboy is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou View Post
    You know, I hear this a lot, and it really doesn't make sense at all. Because religions do include moral teachings, and therefore they are at least partly responsible for the actions of their followers, either by encouraging or condoning harmful actions or by failing to have rules against them.
    Religions can't physically force people to follow their teachings can they? People are imperfect so it's absolutely impossible for them to follow their "perfect" teachings regardless of how hard they try. They will make mistakes. You're assuming Christianity and Islam don't have rules against "harmful actions" when of course they do. Who exactly would police these rules? Do we live in a Christian or Islamic state where the laws are based on their teachings? And even if we did the people who would be enforcing the laws would still be human and thus liable to make mistakes.

    I assume that you meant to say that humans are fallible. And by that argument you can't blame any ideology for anything its followers do, since no one is infallible in that case either. Which would lead us to the slightly strange conclusion that there's nothing wrong with, say, Nazism, it's just that the nazis are bad people.
    Ya I meant fallible. I was tired when I was writing that. Please do forgive me. Nazism is an extreme example. For one it's not even a religion. Give me some concrete examples of Christianity or Islam(mainly Islam since I'm a follower) telling it's followers to commit crimes. If you can't do that then you have no argument. I'm Muslim and in my opinion Islam is perfect, but of course the followers are not. That's why a major part of Islam is constantly asking God for forgiveness for the sins you've committed. Of course I don't believe say Hinduism or Buddhism are perfect religions and all the blame for their people's actions are on the people. I'm Muslim so it only holds for Islam.

    Lets not make this a religious debate. You disagreeing with my stand doesn't make you or me any less right or wrong.

  7. #7
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    98abaile is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by dna2playboy View Post
    Ya I meant fallible. I was tired when I was writing that. Please do forgive me. Nazism is an extreme example. For one it's not even a religion. Give me some concrete examples of Christianity or Islam(mainly Islam since I'm a follower) telling it's followers to commit crimes. If you can't do that then you have no argument. I'm Muslim and in my opinion Islam is perfect, but of course the followers are not. That's why a major part of Islam is constantly asking God for forgiveness for the sins you've committed. Of course I don't believe say Hinduism or Buddhism are perfect religions and all the blame for their people's actions are on the people. I'm Muslim so it only holds for Islam.
    The way I see it, religion is very ambiguous, it can be interpreted in many different ways and since its based on belief not fact, any interpretation that you believe in can be religiouly justified. As a result many people with twisted opinions and objectives can use religion as an justifiable reason for their actions.

    Take Iran as an example, the country is run by a religious party, they impose their laws on others as part of their faith and if anyone disagrees, that person is a heretic. Iran can then eliminate that person as their belief justifies the death of heretics. Their faith justifies their control, their control ratifies their faith. Its morally wrong, but religiously there is no fault to the logic. Its the same old argument for the existence of pretty much any religion, "I'm right because I believe it, I believe it because I'm right"/"I believe in god because he exists and he exists because I believe he does".

  8. #8
    dna2playboy is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98abaile View Post
    The way I see it, religion is very ambiguous, it can be interpreted in many different ways and since its based on belief not fact, any interpretation that you believe in can be religiouly justified. As a result many people with twisted opinions and objectives can use religion as an justifiable reason for their actions.
    The blame still lies on the people falsely interpreting their religion to meet their ends. Yes falsely because Christianity and Islam don't preach what they claim it does. I doubt they even believe in their religion. They're just using it as a means to control and use people so they can gain more power. You're right some things are slightly ambiguous but most of it isn't. Killing innocent people is pretty clear cut. Suicide is pretty clear cut. There's nothing vague about those things.

  9. #9
    BlueDemon is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Mixing religion + politics = dangerous (see Dune xD).

    And donīt forget,all these teachings (Bible or Koran) were still written by people.I think it isnīt quite correct to still believe in the norms that were present 2000/1500 years ago -> people evolve,as well as our cultures and our views do.

    And for me personally,I sure as hell donīt believe everything the bible says.I actually have to read all of the Holy Book to make my own opinion some day,but I wonīt believe that the world was made in 7 days,or that God was such a prick [<- ok,I donīt want to insult anyone here,itīs a joke,kay?] and punishes all humankind for the mistake of 2 people.Itīs just too....human.

  10. #10
    dna2playboy is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDemon View Post
    Mixing religion + politics = dangerous (see Dune xD).

    And donīt forget,all these teachings (Bible or Koran) were still written by people.I think it isnīt quite correct to still believe in the norms that were present 2000/1500 years ago -> people evolve,as well as our cultures and our views do.
    Saw Dune. Both the old one and the new one. I assume you're talking about the books tho right?

    The thing is if you're a follower then you don't believe they were written by man, so that doesn't hold true. And specifically if you're a Muslim then you know the Quran was written for all of man for all of time. Muslims view it as the final book for a reason. Cultures and people evolve but our essence is and will always be the same. The same drama that's happening now has happened over and over and over through out time. It just might become more complex is all.

    and punishes all humankind for the mistake of 2 people.Itīs just too....human.
    If Adam and Eve, two of God's creations who have seen him and talked to him personally could be persuaded to do what he forbids, then I'm pretty sure any one of us would have too. I mean we do it all the time. We drink we kill we lie we use etc. The apple is a metaphor(yes i believe there was an actual tree and an apple) for all the things God has forbidden us to do. The devil convinced Adam and Eve to go against God's command once, yet we do it on a regular basis. So much that we don't even see them as crimes anymore.

    Ok I'm officially done with this topic tho. I didn't mean to bring religion into it(I lack foresight). I just wanted to show a cool article that Rainn Wilson wrote. If you have any replies to anything I've said, feel free to PM me. But lets kill this thread that was doomed from the start. My B

 

 
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