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Thread: Smoking

  1. #21
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_hana View Post
    ^ http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/337/15/1052

    So we STILL have bigger problems than this.^__^
    Like how America refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol!!
    yeah....
    There are three problems with your post.

    First of all the study you posted doesn't seem to take into account the increase in productivity per worker that a non-smoking (and thus healthier) population brings.

    Secondly, and more to the point, your study doesn't address my main argument, i.e. how the money is spent. I have no problem with using my tax money on reasonable healthcare that actually increases longevity and general quality of life, but lung cancer is something that a large amount of people bring on themselves, and that's entirely unnecessary. Not to mention that the treatment of smokers takes a lot of working hours from doctors, something that also tends to be in short supply.

    And thirdly, and most importantly, the idea that you don't need to fix a smaller problem until you fix all larger ones is utterly prepostrous. Quite frankly the entire argument that stopping smoking would somehow not be a good thing unless the problem of global warming is also fixed is idiotic in the extreme.

  2. #22
    sakura_hana is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    And thirdly, and most importantly, the idea that you don't need to fix a smaller problem until you fix all larger ones is utterly prepostrous. Quite frankly the entire argument that stopping smoking would somehow not be a good thing unless the problem of global warming is also fixed is idiotic in the extreme.
    Pfff...okay I'll leave it like this. We'll be getting off topic soon so if you want to continue, pm me. This will be my last post here.

    What I am saying is that America goes through some very dark times and there are signs that things might get even worse imo.

    Americans constitute 5% of the world's population but consume 24% of the world's energy.
    On average, one American consumes as much energy as

    2 Japanese
    6 Mexicans
    13 Chinese
    31 Indians
    128 Bangladeshis
    307 Tanzanians
    370 Ethiopians
    and that is because they are using the old electric system.
    And this is a problem they should have solved a lot of time ago and no one thinks about it. BUT they want to ban smoking. Isn't that cute?

    Also...
    The average individual daily consumption of water is 159 gallons, while more than half the world's population lives on 25 gallons.
    well...we all knew this. so no point made.just another example.

    Isn't the contrast so cool? I mean everyone now tends to hate America. If I were an American I would definitely prefer doing something that would benefit the whole world, to show that I am not the ignorant they believe I am. I don't know...do something to show that I care . ( and please don't give me the not-all -Americans-are-ignorant kinda thing cuz I already know that. And yes I was talking about a stereotypical image )

    In this world....a country has different sorts of power: the cultural power, the economical power, the military power, demographic power, technological and the like. America remained with only with the cultural power. And what remains of the military power they once had ...may only be the so called "speed of reaction" and I'm not even sure they still have it if I think about the development of technology in france and germany.
    A sign that things could get worse is that well...Great Britain used to import its weapons from America but hten, in 2003 ( I think) they switched to France. This raises some questions imo. The rule is, you don't buy weapons from a country you might have conflicts with in the near future cuz it basically means your funeral.
    (An example -China case-, you don't buy SUHOI 27 from Russia if you know that you might come to war with them in the next 40 or 50 years).

    so yes, I do think they have bigger problems and the 'pollution problem' is just one of them and I do think they might as well try solving these big ones instead of trying to solve the smoking problems.
    Well, they don't even have to solve ALL of them like you said. But just STARTING to solve SOME of them would be quite nice.

  3. #23
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    You still seem to labour under the delusion that it's impossible to fix both problems independently of each other. Honestly, if you can't grasp this fact I really don't know what I should say anymore.

    Or are you proposing that there's some magical force that prevents fixing all bigger problems if the government tries to eliminate smoking?

  4. #24
    Stuyvesant is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I dunno why people are talking about how smokers are a drain on the economic wealth of a country because of the medical costs. Old people - pentioners - are a much bigger drain. By dying young, you are saving your country money. This is why the last Czech president advocated smoking.

    As for the statistics on smokers and the ill effects of second hand smoke, we'll never have true reflections. The reason for this is that causality is near impossible to prove. We all know that smoking is bad for you, and will probably lead to lung cancer, but proving it as a scientific fact/certainty is a different matter. You need long term studies and there are too many variables. Ain't no ceteris paribus here.

    @ Saizo - sure, saving the environment and stopping people aren't mutually exclusive. What pisses me off is that time, manpower and money is spent on campaigning against smoking, when it could be put to better use. Sure, when the bigger problems are sorted out, come back and stop smoking. Until then, leave us alone.

  5. #25
    overmind is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    I honestly forget why 2nd hand smoke is worse, you somehow breathe in more carcinogens than the current smoker is smoking or something. And apparently it's in an enclosed environment. And I got this from an anime in the first place, so just don't listen to me. >_<

  6. #26
    Nicholas71 is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^there's only one way to end this dispute...someone send this to mythbusters.

    unless of course they've already done it. have they?

  7. #27
    overmind is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    mythbusters is awesome, I saw them launch dummies over the U.S. border via catapult

  8. #28
    _Vincent_ is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by dna2playboy View Post
    ^ I hate that too. Smokers will line up in front of buildings, so that I have to literally hold my breath for about half a block. Anyone who chooses to smoke is retarded.
    at least its over as soon as you passed through them. I work on the front desk and the people smoking outside stands in front of the door letting the smoke go in. We're supposed to be a non-smoking building too. =\

    I'm a non-smoker so I really don't like the smell of smoke and I would be a lot happier if I could live in a smoke-free environment. Too bad its not possible. Smoking has become part of our society now. Smokers are now a majority in all the places that I know of.

  9. #29
    MSM
    MSM is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    well, just my 2cent.
    If you're not being impotent by smoking then you will transfer that nicotine infected gene to your kid who will then have to pay for your deed with IQ related prob or other blah blah issues

  10. #30
    Joeyt741 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Short term, smoking feels good.

    Thats why people (myself included) smoke, and thats why people will always continue to do so. If i wasnt shortening my lifespan with smoking im sure the built up stress that smoking alleviates would do the same thing.

 

 
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