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  1. #11
    StealDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou View Post
    Though if we look back at Obama's record, he's shown himself to be quite solidly liberal, and he's also had a history of being right more often than the average congresscritter. Furthermore he's also stood up for his beliefs even when they were unpopular. This leads us to the most likely conclusion, i.e. that he's a man of character who does what he thinks he has to do in order to win the election.
    I just hope once he wins he plows his ass straight back to the far left.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by neruke View Post
    Obama vs. McCain... hmm...

    I(and the world) {will} take Obama. *[A much better proposition]than another stupid Republican. Thank you.
    Irony much?
    I don't particularly like McCain much, but I greatly prefer him to the alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealDragon View Post
    I just hope once he wins he plows his ass straight back to the far left.
    That might be a bit complicated to do to oneself, would it not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou View Post
    First of all, Obama isn't like every other politician. In fact, as far as politicians go, Obama is one of the more skilled ones right now, as demonstrated by him coming from practically nowhere and solidly beating Clinton, who was viewed as the self-evident nominee only nine moths ago.

    Secondly, Obama's not Mr. Perfect. He won't be right all the time, and he has done some bad decisions, such as his recent vote on the FISA bill. Part of this can be attributed to a drive to appeal to the swing voters in the US which tends to be necessary in order to win the elections.

    For example, not wearing green is probably an (somewhat clumsy) attempt to avoid right-wing smears. Remember that there is a serious attempt by elements of the US right to portray Obama as an muslim. I still remember when Obama went to Kenya, and this picture of him wearing traditional Kenyan clothes was used to argue that Obama was some sort of secret muslim terrorist.

    Though if we look back at Obama's record, he's shown himself to be quite solidly liberal, and he's also had a history of being right more often than the average congresscritter. Furthermore he's also stood up for his beliefs even when they were unpopular. This leads us to the most likely conclusion, i.e. that he's a man of character who does what he thinks he has to do in order to win the election.
    Obama's senatorial record, to me at least, seems decidedly, well, average. At least I can respect(though not agree with) people like Pelosi or Kennedy, who passionately believe in things and fight for them. Obama's record, to me, seems more to be filling time between then, and running for president(call me a cynic if you will).

    Also, to get on the topic at hand, I hate to sound like I am defending the guy, but doesn't this seem like much ado about nothing? It seems more bureaucratic fluff than an actual gaff. Afterall, when was the last time you saw a guy wearing a green blazer(outside of golf)? Or a green tie(I personally prefer navy or gray ties myself)? Or, perish the thought, a green dress to a formal event? More usually, a muted color, such as tan or gray or blue, is worn to formal events. I mean, honestly, when was the last time you saw someone wearing a hot pink suit to a goodwill mission?

  3. #13
    Krytha is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    McCain defeats Obama? Dewey defeats Truman?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krytha View Post
    McCain defeats Obama? Dewey defeats Truman?
    I have a feeling this election will be closer to the Reagan-Mondale election.


    I think we all know which one will be Reagan and which one will be Mondale.

  5. #15
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    funny thing is the national Media is not reporting this. As for mccain, he's like 72 going on 90 years old. But i still think Obama's rockstar status wont be enough for him to win.

  6. #16
    StealDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko View Post
    That might be a bit complicated to do to oneself, would it not?
    He's a Harvard grad, he's smart enough to figure it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko View Post
    I have a feeling this election will be closer to the Reagan-Mondale election.

    I think we all know which one will be Reagan and which one will be Mondale.
    Yes. Yes we do.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  7. #17
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by StealDragon View Post
    I just hope once he wins he plows his ass straight back to the far left.
    Well, as there doesn't exist anything even resembling the far left in mainstream US politics, that might be hard to do. Hell, there's even a strong case to be made that the US doesn't have any real political left wing at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko
    Obama's senatorial record, to me at least, seems decidedly, well, average. At least I can respect(though not agree with) people like Pelosi or Kennedy, who passionately believe in things and fight for them. Obama's record, to me, seems more to be filling time between then, and running for president(call me a cynic if you will).
    As far as I know Obama's senatorial record actually consists of him getting shit done. And what about Obama's record makes it likely that it would be a mere stepping stone?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx
    funny thing is the national Media is not reporting this. As for mccain, he's like 72 going on 90 years old. But i still think Obama's rockstar status wont be enough for him to win.
    Actually, to be perfectly frank, this is kind of an non-issue. The most likely explanation is that some staffer fucked up. While the US mainstream media lives on inflating non-issues to cyclopean proportions, I think that this one might be a bit hard to sell.

    And that's not even touching the real question. Why should the media spend time on this instead of the really important issues?

  8. #18
    StealDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou View Post
    Well, as there doesn't exist anything even resembling the far left in mainstream US politics, that might be hard to do. Hell, there's even a strong case to be made that the US doesn't have any real political left wing at all.
    Thats because the mud slinging right loves to brand any serious liberal as socialist.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  9. #19
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko View Post
    I have a feeling this election will be closer to the Reagan-Mondale election.
    [IMG]RIGGED[/IMG]
    Nothing to see here people, pull the lever, punch the card and walk away with this blindfold on.

  10. #20
    Jakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou View Post
    As far as I know Obama's senatorial record actually consists of him getting shit done. And what about Obama's record makes it likely that it would be a mere stepping stone?
    Project Vote Smart - Senator Barack Hussein Obama Jr. - Voting Record
    Sen. Barack Obama [D-IL] - GovTrack.us
    Quote Originally Posted by GovTrack
    Voting History

    Statistic: Barack Obama missed 287 of 1268 votes (23%) since Jan 6, 2005 (Exceedingly Poor relative to peers).
    Below are Barack Obama's most recent votes.
    DateVoteVote DescriptionJul 22, 2008 11:28 AMAbsentOn Cloture on the Motion to Proceed (Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Motion to Proceed to S. 3268 )
    Cloture on the Motion to Proceed Agreed to 94-0, 6 not voting (3/5 required)
    Jul 16, 2008 6:42 PMAbsentOn Passage - Senate - H.R. 5501 As Amended
    Bill Passed 80-16, 4 not voting
    Jul 16, 2008 5:53 PMAbsentOn the DeMint Amdt. No. 5077
    Amendment Rejected 31-64, 5 not voting
    Jul 16, 2008 5:33 PMAbsentOn the Kyl Amdt. No. 5082
    Amendment Rejected 28-67, 5 not voting
    Jul 16, 2008 5:05 PMAbsentOn the Gregg Amdt. No. 5081
    Amendment Rejected 44-51, 5 not voting
    Here's a good one from a, shall we say, rather liberal news source(Joseph C. Wilson: Obama's Hollow "Judgment" and Empty Record)
    What should we make of Obama's other judgments in foreign affairs? Take Afghanistan, for example. It has been evident for some time that our efforts there are going badly and that cooperation and support from our NATO allies would be helpful. As chairman of the subcommittee on Senate Foreign Relations responsible for NATO and Europe, Obama could have used his lofty position actually to engage the issue and pressure the administration to take some action to improve our chance of success in that conflict against the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Of course, that would have involved holding hearings, questioning administration witnesses, and taking a position and offering alternatives. That is what we expect that from senators in a democracy. It is called oversight.
    But, instead, Obama, by his own admission, offers the excuse that he has been too busy running for president to do anything substantive, such as direct his staff to organize a single hearing. "Well, first of all," Obama was forced to confess in the Democratic debate in Ohio on February 26, "I became chairman of this committee at the beginning of this campaign, at the beginning of 2007. So it is true that we haven't had oversight hearings on Afghanistan." To date, his subcommittee has held no policy hearings at all -- none. At the same time that Obama claimed he was too busy campaigning to do anything substantive, racking up one of the worst attendance records in the Senate, Senator Clinton chaired extensive hearings of the Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health and attended many others as a member of the Armed Service Committee.
    As a consequence of Obama's dereliction of duty on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a feckless administration has had absolutely no oversight as it careens from disaster to disaster in Afghanistan, including the central governments loss of control over 70 percent of the country and yet another bumper crop of opium to fuel the efforts of the Taliban and their terrorist allies. Of course, if you don't hold hearings, conduct oversight, make recommendations or sponsor legislation, then you have no record to explain or defend and you are free to take whatever position is convenient when attacking those who actually did address issues. Meanwhile, on the campaign trail, Obama holds forth on Afghanistan, chiding the administration and our allies as though he's a profile in courage and not someone who has abandoned his post in establishing accountability.
    To quote Wikipedia:
    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_Uni ted_States_Senate
    Summary

    Obama has been described to have "sponsored 131 bills since Jan 4, 2005," of which 90% (118 bills) remain in committee (Average) and 2% (2 bills) have been enacted into law (Average, relative to peers).[2] These figures do not include bills to which Obama contributed very substantially as cosponsor, such as the Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 or the Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, which were formally sponsored by Senators Coburn and Lugar, respectively. They also exclude amendments to other bills, although these in the Senate are not required to be germane to the parent bill and can therefore effectively be bills in their own right.[3] Obama has co-sponsored 619 bills during the same time period (Average, relative to peers).[2]

    Some bills he has introduced, listed among his 119, I thought I should point out:
    109 S. 2048 Lead Free Toys Act of 2005
    109 S. 2154 To provide for the issuance of a commemorative postage stamp in honor of Rosa Parks.
    109 S. 3757 To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 950 Missouri Avenue in East St. Louis, Illinois, as the `Katherine Dunham Post Office Building'.
    109 S.CON.RES. 42 Recognizing the historical significance of Juneteenth Independence Day, and expressing the sense of Congress that history should be regarded as a means for understanding the past and... IS
    109 S.CON.RES. 53 Expressing the sense of Congress that any effort to impose photo identification requirements for voting should be rejected. IS
    109 S.RES. 291 To congratulate the Chicago White Sox on winning the 2005 World Series Championship. ATS
    109 S.RES. 516 Recognizing the historical significance of Juneteenth Independence Day and expressing the sense of the Senate that history should be regarded as a means for understanding the past and... ATS
    109 S.RES. 529 Designating July 13, 2006, as `National Summer Learning Day'.
    110 S. 1306 Lead Free Toys Act of 2007
    109 S. 2045 Health Care for Hybrids Act IS [16]
    109 S. 2047 Healthy Communities Act of 2005.
    109 S. 2149 STEP UP Act of 2005
    109 S. 2280 STOP FRAUD Act
    109 S. 2506 Healthy Places Act of 2006
    109 S. 3475 Homes for Heroes Act of 2006
    110 S. 1067 Healthy Places Act of 2007 IS
    110 S. 1068 Healthy Communities Act of 2007 IS
    110 S. 1084 Homes for Heroes Act of 2007
    110 S. 1151 Health Care for Hybrids Act IS [16]
    110 S. 116 STEP UP Act of 2007
    110 S. 1513 Predominantly Black Institution Act of 2007
    110 S.CON.RES. 25 Condemning the recent violent actions of the Government of Zimbabwe against peaceful opposition party activists and members of civil society. RS [32]
    110 S.CON.RES. 44 Expressing the sense of Congress that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring Rosa Louise McCauley Parks. IS
    110 S.CON.RES. 46 Whereas Sickle Cell Disease is an inherited blood disorder that is a major health problem in the United States, primarily affecting African Americans; IS
    110 S.CON.RES. 5 Honoring the life of Percy Lavon Julian, a pioneer in the field of organic chemistry and the first and only African-American chemist to be inducted into the National Academy of Sciences.
    110 S.RES. 133 Whereas Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson was born in 1939 to Bishop W.A. and Mrs. Mary Patterson, Sr., in Humboldt, Tennessee; ATS
    110 S.RES. 268 Designating July 12, 2007, as `National Summer Learning Day'. ATS
    110 S.RES. 383 Honoring and recognizing the achievements of Carl Stokes, the first African-American mayor of a major American city, in the 40th year since his election as Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio.
    He has authored some good bills, I will admit, but what can be seen from his voting record is that everything is decidedly, well, average. Heck, a good bit of his bills are the same few bills introduced in a different session of congress.
    Maybe you can say I am trying to find fault with him, but there is nothing stellar about his Congressional career, that would lead me to trust his political acumen. It seems more to me, especially regarding his abysmal 07-08 attendance and the fact that he has done almost nothing with his European Affairs chairmanship, that he is using his seat as a stepping stone, nothing more.

 

 
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