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  1. #21
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    I think Brently passes the threshold of "a little annoying".


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


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  2. #22
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    But why be happy at his death if he really was an innocent and ignorant person? It would make more sense, and be kinder of her, to hate the system itself and not the good person who was her husband and who obviously treated her well despite the oppressive society. From her thoughts, there's also no reason to believe that had she spoken up, he wouldn't have listened and continued to keep things the way they were. The problem is that she didn't, and she has no one to blame but herself for that. If freedom was really so important to her that she would value it over the life of a human being, social norms would have been no obstacle to her. To lead a quiet life of inactivity and then rejoice when an outside force removes the thing that was oppressing you only... that's a personal failing. She did not address her own issue, and she apparently did not care about any other women who may be in her position, also longing for freedom. That can only be attributed to her failure to see beyond herself, her own issues (she clearly did not attempt to see things from his perspective, either), which is the result of nothing but selfishness.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  3. #23
    bipolargraph is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    She knew that she would weep again when she saw the kind, tender hands folded in death; the face that had never looked save with love upon her, fixed and gray and dead.
    She just wanted freedom......not completely his fault in his time period that she didn't like the way she lived....

  4. #24
    barny21 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    How is it a bad thing to have and fulfill your desires? Isn't the ability to do what you want a basic human freedom?
    True, the ability to do what you want is a human freedom. But there is no absolute freedom because we are bound by freakin social norms. Can't go on a business deal on a pyjama.
    Tagalog: "Bababa ba?"
    English: "Are you going down?"

  5. #25
    Dante Obscuri is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by bipolargraph View Post
    @saizou: Well it's true what you said..but if you're wife's a little annoying(a little because she said he did have his good moments) would you be happy that she died?
    Saizou didn't live in the late 1800's and he's not a woman (right?). It all comes down to the perspective.

    Louise's joy, in a way, is justified, since we do not know if she wanted to marry Brently, or if she was happy with their marriage.


  6. #26
    bipolargraph is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Saizou didn't live in the late 1800's and he's not a woman (right?). It all comes down to the perspective.
    Well what if he used to go out with his friends, and she tells him not too? etc. etc.

  7. #27
    Dante Obscuri is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^He's not forced to follow her orders, nor will society think poorly of him for not doing so.


  8. #28
    bipolargraph is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Well lets say saizou is a woman, and is in the 1800. Would he be happy that his husband died who is kind/tender/loving towards her(saizou) died so that he could be free (and do whatever you can do in the 1800's >_> ). I mean she's overdoing, it's not like her husband was beating her, she is the one who had the problem for being happy (in that time's society). Know what I mean?

  9. #29
    Dante Obscuri is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    She's not happy because Brently died; she's happy because she's free. It just happens Brently had to die in order for her to be free.


  10. #30
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    But why be happy at his death if he really was an innocent and ignorant person? It would make more sense, and be kinder of her, to hate the system itself and not the good person who was her husband and who obviously treated her well despite the oppressive society.
    How so? For her, her husband was the personification of the oppressive system. He may not have intended to oppress her, but that's really immaterial when looking at the effects, and it's the effects that caused Louise's unhappiness in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    From her thoughts, there's also no reason to believe that had she spoken up, he wouldn't have listened and continued to keep things the way they were.
    Well, except for the fact that back then, women were considered intellectually inferior, and therefore you could ignore what they said. Also the oppressive legal system still remains no matter what her husband does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    The problem is that she didn't, and she has no one to blame but herself for that. If freedom was really so important to her that she would value it over the life of a human being, social norms would have been no obstacle to her. To lead a quiet life of inactivity and then rejoice when an outside force removes the thing that was oppressing you only... that's a personal failing.
    A personal failing? That's a harsh definition. After all, the people who truly could reject the societal norms in Victorian society were all exceptional persons. The woman in the story obviously isn't one of these exceptions, and thus the only way for her to attain some of the freedom she's yearning for is if her husband dies.

    And yes, people who are oppressed and languish in inactivity will be relieved and happy if an outside force removes the oppressor. To reiterate my earlier example, if you were unjustly imprisoned and your jailer suddenly dies and you're free to go, wouldn't you be relieved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    She did not address her own issue, and she apparently did not care about any other women who may be in her position, also longing for freedom. That can only be attributed to her failure to see beyond herself, her own issues (she clearly did not attempt to see things from his perspective, either), which is the result of nothing but selfishness.
    And how, pray tell me, should she address her own situation? And furthermore, how should she address the situation of other women for that matter? Remember that this was written well before women were allowed to vote. Every legal path was closed to her, and every socially acceptable one as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bipolargraph
    Well lets say saizou is a woman, and is in the 1800. Would he be happy that his husband died who is kind/tender/loving towards her(saizou) died so that he could be free (and do whatever you can do in the 1800's >_> ). I mean she's overdoing, it's not like her husband was beating her, she is the one who had the problem for being happy (in that time's society). Know what I mean?
    Very well, let us assume that I indeed am a married woman in the 19th century. That means that I can't vote, it is highly probable that I can't choose who I'll marry, hell, in the early 19th century I won't even have legally recognized property rights, and that's only the legal obstacles I'll be facing. In nearly every way, both legal and societal, I will be considered an inferior human being.

    Now, I pose a question to you. If you met a person who was subject to this kind if inequality today, would you really have the gall to tell him that it's his fault that he isn't happy?

 

 
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