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  1. #11
    neruke is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    I would like to pic up the topic with female sexual predators again.

    As we all know: adult man + underage girl = bad.
    And in front of the law: adult women + underage boy = also bad.

    But reality doesnt look like this.
    I mean... come on... If you were 13, 14, 15 years old, and an attractive adult women would like to have sex with you, I dont think that many boys in this age do consider this as a bad thing. Not at all.
    Most of them would be even proud of that.

    So, what is right in this situation?

    On the other hand... there are many young teens who "fall in love" with older boys. Lets say a 15year old girl with a 24year old man.
    Considering the law = bad.
    Considering standart social moral = bad.

    So, what is right in this situation?


    I dont know myself.
    Although I would like to point out that when rape is involved, the case is really clear. But if its sex by consensus, we get problems when it comes to decide what is good and what is bad.


    German law has a pretty good system for that in my opinion.

    Under 14: all sexual activity is only allowed with under 14years old persons.
    14-16: only with persons that are in this range or persons that are in an acceptable range (means... 15 with 19 oder something for example)
    16-18: free sexual choice considering the partner
    18: adult

  2. #12
    martyr3810's Avatar
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    Just to comment, that depends on where you live.

  3. #13
    Sherman is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    First of all:
    86% of the victims of female sexual predators aren't believed, so the crimes go unreported and don't get prosecuted.
    What the hell is this? 86% of victims aren't believed, and so the crimes go unreported?? Then who knows about them? Well enough to know that they comprise 86% of all attacks? Statistics like this are purely inflammatory and piss me off.

    Quote Originally Posted by SD
    I mean its damn near impossible to get people to be objective especially with a topic like this.
    Basing responses on "your own ethical, moral, and personal judgment" is hardly objective, man. He just means don't come out saying "Well, I'm a Christian, and this is the Christian belief", or things like that. Keep em personal.

    And on that note:
    Quote Originally Posted by dna2
    When they're married. It's hard but it's doable. That's my personal opinion,
    Quote Originally Posted by SD
    People need to get marriage off this damn pedestal they have it on. Its annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by SD
    Let's save that discussion for another thread.
    What the shit, man? Leave him alone! If the question is "when is sexual activity OK", and someone answers "after marraige", that's hardly an irrelevant answer. Stop throttling the discussion.

    As for my opinion... well, personally, although I understand the rationale for keeping people away from underage sex, I do think it's too harsh when, say, a 20 year old has sex with his long-term 17-year-old girlfriend, and gets arrested for it. Unfortunately, we DO need rules in place to stop predators, and there doesn't seem to be any real way to do it. If indeed the couple is in fact "in love", then I guess the best answer would be to just wait for a couple of years. If they really are "in love" then that should be OK. I guess.

    And yeah, I totally reckon women get off easier on these charges than guys do. There's a perception that men are more predatory than women, and so people tend to read alot more "evil" into a guy's intentions than they would a woman with the same facts. This is largely based on truth, I guess, but there are still very much exceptions to the rule. Somebody said, "but underage guys would love to have sex with an older woman". Well, the same is true for girls. Loads of teenage girls would love to give up a night with some hot older guy they know, either through personal association or cos he's a celebrity. But we don't like to think of girls in that way, and so we try to protect them, and always make them out to be victims.

  4. #14
    neruke is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    Well, the same is true for girls. Loads of teenage girls would love to give up a night with some hot older guy they know, either through personal association or cos he's a celebrity. But we don't like to think of girls in that way, and so we try to protect them, and always make them out to be victims.
    Exactly.
    In front of the law its the same, but in front of society its not.

    People tend to think, a boy did accept it, and a girl was force to.
    Its not as easy to judge as it may seems.

  5. #15
    StealDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyr3810 View Post
    And SD you can't really complain, you make a comment like that about the status quo and your just asking for shit (and for the record, while I'm not a huge proponent of marriage, its better than more likely to keep the relationship than any other option... soo...)
    Like the inevitability of catching shit for my comments has ever deterred me in the past... ^_^

    P.S. Concerning the title of your thread, its sexual PredAtors
    Shh! That was supposed to be a secret!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    Basing responses on "your own ethical, moral, and personal judgment" is hardly objective, man. He just means don't come out saying "Well, I'm a Christian, and this is the Christian belief", or things like that. Keep em personal.
    And my comment was based on the fact that in my experience most people cannot do that.
    What the shit, man? Leave him alone! If the question is "when is sexual activity OK", and someone answers "after marraige", that's hardly an irrelevant answer. Stop throttling the discussion.
    Oh untwist your panties. I didn't flame him, troll him, bait him, or anything... so calm your britches.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


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  6. #16
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    First of all, I was in my car going home after midnight last night, turning onto a paved road outside of my own and suddenly made the connection between the instances of "predator" in my post and in my title and that Firefox's innate spell checker didn't check that, not to mention that my copy/paste spell checking didn't include the title, and then, uh, my brain had a reaction of sorts... SON OF A BITCH! Sorry Steal.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna2playboy View Post
    This may seem really conservative, but if it was illegal to have sex period unless you were married then it would get rid of a lot of the problems about age differences and whether it was consensual or not. But since that's never gonna happen(here at least) then the idea of one year difference makes it a sex offense is dumb. But people know it's against the law so why don't they just wait? I know there are circumstances where the girl or boy might lie about their age, but again if they just stayed virgins till marriage then they wouldn't have to worry about it.
    You're perfectly entitled to your opinions; but just to throw a countering standard out there: I would never consent to marriage or defend it's current form's place in society. Marriage is a legal binding socio-economic agreement between two parties, usually of different genders, agreeing to be put into a situation in which they are given a different scheme of laws and social standards to benefit from and abide by. First and foremost that isn't a religious thing, and it isn't even entirely universal thing. There are those who refuse to get married and continue to live and support each other without having been legally bound to.

    When they're married. It's hard but it's doable. That's my personal opinion, but I'm guessing the majority of society would say...It depends on the parents of the children really. If they're in 3rd grade and the parents are cool with them dating then there ya go.
    I come from this strange real world. I know it's rare to hear tales from it and all, so I'll share one with you. A great deal of people have romantic and sexual relationships without the knowledge of their families. Now, third graders, or 9-10 year olds are a bit young for dating in my opinion; but that's just my entire point, it's an opinion. I'm perfectly cool with two 13 year olds using birth control and having sex in secret - as long as I'm not held accountable for knowing or allowing it.


    Quote Originally Posted by StealDragon View Post
    A thief can only be one thing. Someone that steals something. A sexual offender can be a rapist, and underage couple, a exhibitionist, a voyeur, etc. Things that have absolutely nothing to do with one another and are completely harmless can all be labeled sexual offenses.
    Well let me rephrase the question for you, specifically: What's something that falls within your "almost grey, but still wrong" range of sexual conduct? (how about an i.e. - 12 year olds having sex, a fifty year old and an eighteen year old doing the same, raping a prostitute who was just coming back from a "job," etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by martyr3810 View Post
    I think the entire argument for this is moot, as sexual predators are over-advertised and your about 300 times more likely to be sexually assaulted by family, friends, your neighbors, a doctor, a priest or a teacher, than someone online. (The # is actually higher for family and friends, 300 times is about right for neighbors and a little lower for the doctor, priest, teacher scenario).

    Doesn't that just make you feel warm and happy inside? Knowing family and friends are the number 1 cause for sexual assault? :P
    Well, if I had mentioned the Internet in that topic I'd have a comeback for that one. Okay fine, one comment will do: It really is a little disturbing, especially alongside that estimate, that the soccer mom who is going to congress to protest about sexual predators on the Internet, will also get "all hot and heavy" over a twenty-one year old actor on the cover of her favorite magazine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    First of all:

    What the hell is this? 86% of victims aren't believed, and so the crimes go unreported?? Then who knows about them? Well enough to know that they comprise 86% of all attacks? Statistics like this are purely inflammatory and piss me off.
    I was actually wanting someone to say that kind of thing; if they aren't reported - then who the hell keeps up with the fact they were brought up? That wouldn't' seem to be a very easy thing to measure; nor would it be very accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by neruke View Post
    Exactly.
    In front of the law its the same, but in front of society its not.

    People tend to think, a boy did accept it, and a girl was force to.
    Its not as easy to judge as it may seems.
    And that's exactly how I interpret the usual reactions too.

    ___
    That certainly took a lot of time. I don't understand how Jakko and co. (I just did that) do that so often.
    Last edited by Terasiel; 02-07-2008 at 03:38 PM. Reason: are

  7. #17
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terasiel View Post
    First of all, I was in my car going home after midnight last night, turning onto a paved road outside of my own and suddenly made the connection between the instances of "predator" in my post and in my title and that Firefox's innate spell checker didn't check that, not to mention that my copy/paste spell checking didn't include the title, and then, uh, my brain had a reaction of sorts... SON OF A BITCH! Sorry Steal.
    :]
    Well let me rephrase the question for you, specifically: What's something that falls within your "almost grey, but still wrong" range of sexual conduct? (how about an i.e. - 12 year olds having sex, a fifty year old and an eighteen year old doing the same, raping a prostitute who was just coming back from a "job," etc...)
    12 year old having consensual sex is... odd and I'd want to sit and talk to the both of them in depth about it. But in no way do I see it as sexually deviant, sexually criminal, or in anyway dangerous (initially). 12 is what... 7th grade or 8th grade? I'd expect that kids would be wondering strongly about sex by then.

    50 year old an 18 is nothing special. Shit like that's been going on for millenia.

    Raping a prostitute is exactly that. I don't give a fuck what the career, if you're raped you're a victim and deserve the full protection of the law. No bullshit about "oh she brought it on herself". No excuses. Its the law it applies to everyone no matter what they were doing ten minutes before hand.

    Of course the problem with my opinion is its too easily exploited... I've yet to settle on an appropriate amount of skepticism to keep innocent people from being caught up in whatever mess.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


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  8. #18
    neruke is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terasiel View Post
    I come from this strange real world. I know it's rare to hear tales from it and all, so I'll share one with you. A great deal of people have romantic and sexual relationships without the knowledge of their families. Now, third graders, or 9-10 year olds are a bit young for dating in my opinion; but that's just my entire point, it's an opinion. I'm perfectly cool with two 13 year olds using birth control and having sex in secret - as long as I'm not held accountable for knowing or allowing it.
    When I was 10 years old I "dated" a girl which was 11 years old.
    We kissed and it was cool and nobody said anything...

    I dont have any problem if 13 year olds get into sex and stuff.
    And that doesnt have to be held in secret... not for me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Terasiel View Post
    Well let me rephrase the question for you, specifically: What's something that falls within your "almost grey, but still wrong" range of sexual conduct? (how about an i.e. - 12 year olds having sex, a fifty year old and an eighteen year old doing the same, raping a prostitute who was just coming back from a "job," etc...)
    12 years old having sex with each other is imo ok.

    And a 50years old having sex with a 18years old is completly legal. So its also ok.

    And raping is always a crime. Lets say even if he pays the prostitute afterwards. It is a crime anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Terasiel View Post
    You're perfectly entitled to your opinions; but just to throw a countering standard out there: I would never consent to marriage or defend it's current form's place in society. Marriage is a legal binding socio-economic agreement between two parties, usually of different genders, agreeing to be put into a situation in which they given a different scheme of laws and social standards to benefit from and abide by. First and foremost that isn't a religious thing, and it isn't even entirely universal thing. There are those who refuse to get married and continue to live and support each other without having been legally bound to.
    And thats the problem.
    Marriage is overrated. Extremely overrated.
    There is no rape in marriage? Wrong.
    Sex between married persons is always legal? Wrong.

    So what is marriage for?
    Its a nice thing ok... the ceremony is pretty cool, and even I wanna have one someday, but its not the ubar-thing.

  9. #19
    echoblaze is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    sounds like you're advocating a brave new world there, steal

    i'd be ok with kids experimenting with each other, though i would like them to know about the consequences too just so they don't suddenly realize that that wasn't the best of ideas. but, i'd draw a line somewhere for older people having sex with younger people. like i said earlier in the thread, there's a transition period between just following orders and becoming more self-aware/questioning authority - if an older person have sex with the former, it's abuse imho.

    as for marriage, apparently a lot of girls find it romantic.

  10. #20
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by echoblaze View Post
    like i said earlier in the thread, there's a transition period between just following orders and becoming more self-aware/questioning authority - if an older person have sex with the former, it's abuse imho.
    You just implied that human beings become self-aware, question authority, even become sentient if you will, after puberty. Strange, I seem to be the lone person in the world that believes if you don't have it by the time you're 18, you never will; and most don't. Is it not common to define maturity by how little one resists authority? Not that I agree with that at all.


    as for marriage, apparently a lot of girls find it romantic.
    That's because it comes with the sexiest sound of all: Cha-ching!

 

 
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