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Thread: Philosophy

  1. #31
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by StealDragon View Post
    Well there are vast regions of space today in which absolutely "nothing" exists. Just wanted to throw that out there.

    On second thought, do the waves/particles of light/radiation count as "something"?
    As adonai stated, zero-point energy does exist. However, what we refer to as "nothing" is still a area that exists in spacetime, is it not?

    Spacetime itself was created as a result of the Big Bang, so the "nothing" that "existed" "before" the Big Bang "was" of a far more fundamental nature, because not even spacetime existed then.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    Click on chaos in either one, and it'll lead you to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_%28mythology%29
    [...]
    It's completely disingenuous to provide a definition from two pages that does not actually define chaos, when the word itself links to the article that I had already posted to support my point.
    So, you think you are right because of a single line from a single article even though there is nothing which indicates it is not a god in here and that there are other articles which state it is (and you don't seem to want to read or look at) ?? You must be more gullible than I thought if a single inconclusive line has more weight than several articles, only because it supports your preconceived view...

    http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Khaos.html
    KHAOS (or Chaos) was the first of the Protogenoi (primeval gods) to emerge at the creation of the universe. She was followed in quick succession by Gaia (Earth), Tartaros (the Underworld) and Eros (Love the life-bringer).
    http://www.allabouthistory.org/greek-gods.htm
    The god Chaos (gaping void) was the foundation of all creation. Out of this god arose Gaea (earth), Tartarus (underworld) and Eros (love). The god Eros was necessary to draw Chaos and Gaea together so that they would produce offspring. Chaos then created night and the first born of Gaea was Uranus (god of the heavens).
    http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/g...hp?deity=CHAOS
    CHAOS: Goddess of Emptiness and Confusion.
    Should I really quote the hundreds of thousands of pages which supports this FACT ? I have no problem with trying to discuss, but you will need more than a single inconclusive line from a single article to prove this is wrong.


    Like I said, chaos/the void/the primordial waters/the cosmic egg are synonymous, they're present in a large amount myths, including the Christian creation myth, with the difference being that god is separate from the void in that case, whereas the other myths involves the gods being created.
    I never said otherwise. Except that the big difference in the Jewish creation myth is that God created and planed everything, as you said. The void/chaos isn't separate from god in this case, it is a part of its creation and not a thinking entity at all.

  3. #33
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is online now Super Moderator Community Builder
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    All this fuss over a proper noun. Psht. This has nothing to do with the topic at all.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


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  4. #34
    echoblaze is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    back on topic, what does it mean for something to exist ?

  5. #35
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    It can be sensed or logically deduced by general consensus to be of the same reality as they are.

    A rock exists because the vast majority of people can either see it or touch it.
    Black holes exist because the "scientific community" has reasoned them into existence through acceptable evidence.
    A man who tells you about his life, but no one else can see or hear him, doesn't exist to anyone but you; therefore, the general consensus on his existence states that it doesn't exist.

  6. #36
    echoblaze is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    hm, but the general consensus seem to believe that god or gods exist

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

    would that mean god/gods exist then ?

    on the converse, there's a lot of things which science only recently understood (DNA and such), does that mean they didn't exist before ? if they didn't exist before, how could they have been found ?

  7. #37
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Okay, for now I'll admit I can't find the words for this problem so...Checkmate.

  8. #38
    StealDragon's Avatar
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    I think that the existance of a god is by no means concrete just because 5 out of 6 people will say that they think one may exist (devoutness is not measured). And since no vast majority (hell no small minority) can agree on the existance and qualities of one deity...


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  9. #39
    NibellungenValasty is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by echoblaze View Post
    back on topic, what does it mean for something to exist ?
    Here I am quoting you and people see I am quoting you Its the same thing with non-existent, what you believe and what you don't believe

    *****************

    About God, I let you'll find the answer yourself. Well, there is only one way to find it out though, and everyone will use that way in some way or another.

    A question

    Why God make our little planet so far from the nearest known planet but too far to know whether we are alone or not ? nearest galaxy, even I have 10 lifetime, I don't think I will able to go there.

    Here the enigma : Do you agree that War is one way to control population? I don't need its answer because it will create another enigma.

    Philosophy is good for 2 thing,

    1. To show that you maybe know more than other person.
    2. To show that you know little about anything at all.

    After all that time on earth, I can say, Human have just completed level 1. How annoying is that if I am in rpg. Then again what say you ^^ Its not what I think. Its what you believe.

  10. #40
    echoblaze is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^
    so, to sum up: "what exists is what you believe in" ? that still wouldn't answer how new things are discovered by chance - if no one believed in them, then that means they shouldn't exist in anyone's world; yet the paradox is, if they didn't exist, how can they be discovered ?

    as for controlling population, it's more "fear/hatred" than "war" that's central, imo. example: if a government is effective in stirring up fear/hatred against aliens, they'd still be able to control their population using that fear/hatred without resorting to war.

    finally, i think a lot of philosophers/scientists did reach #2 - socrates and descartes are good examples of people who believed they knew nothing, and started from there.

 

 
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