Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 74

Thread: Philosophy

  1. #11
    dna2playboy is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    waboomafoof
    Posts
    2,619

    Default

    Ya i get what you mean. I don't mean to make the God topic last any longer since they always end up bad, but i got one last thing to say. There's nothing wrong with asking questions it's just that you're supposed to have faith. Kinda like I have faith that Indonesia exists even though I've never been there myself. There is no guarantee that anything exists outside of what my five senses tell me.

    going to your question, there's no answer for it.

  2. #12
    echoblaze is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,601

    Default

    i like what Hawkings said about the Big Bang (and i think this happens to give an answer to a few posts here); it went something like:

    "What was before the Big Bang? That's like asking what's north of the North Pole."

    ie. it's a futile question since there's literally no answer. logic doesn't even fit into context when we talk about what happened before the beginning of the universe.

    @urameshi

    i'm a bit conflicted too, which is why i started the topic. is philosophy important or not ? so far in the very long history of philosophy, there's only been two things that have convinced me thoroughly:

    - Descartes' "cogito ergo sum", which was later expanded and added to by others into "primary truths"*

    and

    - existentialism: the meaning of life is a personal one; there's no absolute meaning, so everyone must find their own and put all their efforts into it, no matter how futile it might seem.

    *"Primary truths", as quoted from wiki:

    There are three "primary truths" inherently accepted in the investigation of knowledge and truth. They are the first fact (the fact of our existence), the first principle (the principle of non-contradiction) and the first condition (the ability of the mind to know truth). They cannot be validated with positive proof, as they are an inherent in every analysis.
    edit: what are some stuff that you guys have come across, and went "wow, that explains a lot!"

  3. #13
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    1,279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Terasiel View Post
    I'll give you the question that destroys all things and ends all thoughts.

    *ahem* Was there a time before the universe existed? Not planets, not solar systems, not galaxies, not even the Big Band "cloud," a time before this reality itself.
    Actually, the universe came into being with the Big Bang. Time is a property of the universe, being a dimension and all, and therefore time was created with the Big Bang.

    Therefore, as echoblaze pointed out, the entire question "what came before the Big Bang" is inherently absurd.

    Quote Originally Posted by echoblaze
    edit: what are some stuff that you guys have come across, and went "wow, that explains a lot!"
    Philosophy of language, especially Bertrand Russell's work. Also Utilitarism.

  4. #14
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Skipea
    Posts
    5,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Terasiel View Post
    I'll just take the obvious guess you're referring to the Jewish/Christian/Islamic God, in which case, there's a "Don't ask questions just obey" policy there that can't be avoided.
    You just assumed there was a general policy like this, but it is not the case...
    And even so, most mythologies have gods that existed before everything else, like the greek one, among hundreds...

  5. #15
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NCC-1701
    Posts
    13,412

    Default

    Things like that make me wonder if civilizations (Western, Islamic, Eastern European, etc) will ever grow out of or replace the gods and religions we have today? In 6000 CE we'll be studying the Christian, Islamic, and Buddhist myths... just like how today we study the Greek, Egyptian, and Roman myths...


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  6. #16
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    And even so, most mythologies have gods that existed before everything else, like the greek one, among hundreds...
    Nope, generally, most mythologies involve the creator deities being created in some manner, they may be a demiurge, but they themselves are not apart from the world.

    For example, as you said, in Greek mythology, the earth and sky were created from chaos, which then gave birth to the titans, who then gave birth to the gods.
    Last edited by adonai; 02-08-2008 at 10:05 AM.

  7. #17
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Skipea
    Posts
    5,340

    Default

    Yes, Chaos, who is a god, too ! He existed before everything else, time included as it was his grandson (Chronos, son of Ouranos (god of the skies), himself son of Chaos).

    btw, the earth (Gaia) is a goddess, daughter of Chaos and mother of Ouranos (and his wife later on too).

  8. #18
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Carolina, US
    Posts
    3,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou View Post
    Actually, the universe came into being with the Big Bang. Time is a property of the universe, being a dimension and all, and therefore time was created with the Big Bang.

    Therefore, as echoblaze pointed out, the entire question "what came before the Big Bang" is inherently absurd.
    Did you forget this a Philosophy discussion? The question "what came before that" has never, is never, and will never be absurd in the realm of Philosophy.

    What created the Big Bang? What components were in the Big Bang that thus became our universe? If you can't comprehend that being a real question, then you're looking at it from a scientist's point of view, not a philosopher's.

    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    Yes, Chaos, who is a god, too ! He existed before everything else, time included as it was his grandson (Chronos, son of Ouranos (god of the skies), himself son of Chaos).

    btw, the earth (Gaia) is a goddess, daughter of Chaos and mother of Ouranos (and his wife later on too).
    You mind finding a source for that? I've always read that Chaos was a vortex of things, not a single entity in Gaia's story.

  9. #19
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    Yes, Chaos, who is a god, too ! He existed before everything else, time included as it was his grandson (Chronos, son of Ouranos (god of the skies), himself son of Chaos).

    btw, the earth (Gaia) is a goddess, daughter of Chaos and mother of Ouranos (and his wife later on too).
    Doesn't sound like one to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terasiel View Post
    Did you forget this a Philosophy discussion? The question "what came before that" has never, is never, and will never be absurd in the realm of Philosophy.

    What created the Big Bang? What components were in the Big Bang that thus became our universe? If you can't comprehend that being a real question, then you're looking at it from a scientist's point of view, not a philosopher's.
    No matter how you look at it, there is no time before the big bang, time is a measure of change, it's a meaningless concept if nothing exists.

    "What came before that" is also absurd because it's not something that can be resolved empirically, a universe is by definition self contained, what exists "outside" an universe literally does not matter.
    Last edited by adonai; 02-08-2008 at 10:46 AM.

  10. #20
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Carolina, US
    Posts
    3,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    "What came before that" is also absurd because it's not something that can be resolved empirically, a universe is by definition self contained, what exists "outside" an universe literally does not matter.
    No matter how you look at it? What if it's from a broader aspect than just what is contained within your surroundings? Couldn't you say that even atoms were at one point defined by the same belief by most people? "It's made out of matter, going smaller wouldn't make a difference."

 

 
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
vBulletin Skin by: ForumThemes.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79