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  1. #1
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Default HIV or not HIV ?

    http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/data/hkmbeki2.htm
    discuss

    it's quite old but seems plausible...

  2. #2
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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  3. #3
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    again ? i never saw it before, and the matter is too complicated to answer stupidly like you just did (being right or wrong)

    another link : http://www.theperthgroup.com/links.html
    (oups, i forgot, these guys must be evil dudes because they don't agree with the official view of things)

  4. #4
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I'm pretty sure we had a thread about the South African response to the AIDS epidemic before.

    That's not the point though, and in my opinion the answer is very simple, would you sleep with some who is HIV positive? (I do know that there are people who do, but...)

  5. #5
    Chaoswind is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    nah, my health > sex
    My health > love

  6. #6
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    I'm pretty sure we had a thread about the South African response to the AIDS epidemic before.
    I missed it then, but the subject isn't limited to this response here

    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    That's not the point though, and in my opinion the answer is very simple, would you sleep with some who is HIV positive? (I do know that there are people who do, but...)
    How is this an answer to the question ? It's like saying you won't sleep with a girl to not have a baby later, even if she takes the pill and the chance was very low ^^"
    (HIV tests seems to be really unreliable btw)


    ps : the question is not about AIDS' existence but HIV's

    ps 2 : the documents i read were kind of old so they may be obsolete

  7. #7
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    ps : the question is not about AIDS' existence but HIV's

    ps 2 : the documents i read were kind of old so they may be obsolete
    Which is why I said "HIV positive", such a status has it's own definition, it doesn't require the existence of HIV to be true. And the macro was targeted at the fact that someone like Mbeki is still alive, not the thread, someone like that is a mass murderer, no matter how you look at it (do you really believe that his stance is anything other a act to explain his own inaction?)

    And the point is that whatever causes AIDS is communicable, if it wasn't there really wouldn't be any problems would there? When there is a strong enough correlation, you have to begin looking for the causation.


    found the thread:
    Does this Piss You Off?

    Strangely enough, I never posted in it, while you did, apparently in opposition to South Africa's policies. ST is invading my mind...
    Last edited by adonai; 07-24-2007 at 10:00 AM.

  8. #8
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    All I see is another bunch of morons. Much like creationists or global warming sceptics they try to use bogus science to muddle the public opinion.

    The simple facts that HIV has been found in almost every AIDS patient and the fact that antiretroviral drugs work should be enough. For further evidence, go here

    I'd also like to present an interesting tidbit. I know that Wikipedia isn't a good source, and this doesn't really prove anything, but this is wonderfully ironic.

    In 2007, aidstruth.org, a website run by HIV researchers to counter dissident claims,[32] published a partial list of AIDS dissidents who had died of apparently AIDS-related causes. For example, the magazine Continuum, run by HIV-positive dissidents, shut down when its editors all died of AIDS-related causes. It was noted that in every case, the AIDS dissident community has attributed the deaths to unknown causes, secret drug use, or stress.[33]

  9. #9
    shautieh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    found the thread:
    Does this Piss You Off?

    Strangely enough, I never posted in it, while you did, apparently in opposition to South Africa's policies. ST is invading my mind...
    yeay, i remember it now ^^
    nb : this thread is not intended to defend south african policy about AIDS or HIV

    The existence or non existence of HIV is important, for clarity, but also you may want to read that : http://www.theperthgroup.com/POPPAPERS/lastdebate.html

    And the point is that whatever causes AIDS is communicable, if it wasn't there really wouldn't be any problems would there? When there is a strong enough correlation, you have to begin looking for the causation.
    The alternate causes presented in the documents i linked seems as plausible as the existence of a ghost named HIV though...

    @saizou : a good scientific is someone who sometimes goes against the general view on things instead of following the flow like a sheep ! I am not saying these guys were/are right, because i don't know.. but right or wrong, at least they brought questions up and discussed them, and they deserve respect because of that (it is not as if their hypothesis were not possible at all and not backed)

    concerning your article and nih in general, here is another document : http://www.theperthgroup.com/OTHER/n...diesshort.html

  10. #10
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    @saizou : a good scientific is someone who sometimes goes against the general view on things instead of following the flow like a sheep !
    And? A good scientist also knows when he's proven wrong. The scientific community would not accept an erraneous theory if a better alternative theory would be proven. The AIDS dissidents are just like creationists, they cling on to their outdated beliefs and ignore the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh
    I am not saying these guys were/are right, because i don't know.. but right or wrong, at least they brought questions up and discussed them, and they deserve respect because of that (it is not as if their hypothesis were not possible at all and not backed)
    Yeah, they brought it up and they were proven wrong. The case is pretty much closed, or at least is should be. There might have been some doubt ten years ago, but today the HIV hypothesis has been conclusively proven.

    And answer this: If the HIV virus doesn't exist, how come that modern antiretroviral drugs stop the progression of AIDS? This fact conclusively proves that AIDS is caused by a retrovirus.

    The evidence can be found here. I suggest that you read through the rest of the site as well.

 

 
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