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Thread: Talents

  1. #101
    Jakko's Avatar
    Jakko is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by MojoMunkeez View Post
    Actually, the war was to "preserve the Union". Slavery wasn't an issue until Lincoln released the Emancipation Proclamation following the Union "victory" at Antietam (Manasas, if you're southern). The South seceded because it felt threatened by the new Republican president. Southerners falsely assumed that Lincoln would push for a constitutional amendment abolishing slavery when he took office, however, that was not on Lincoln's agenda at all. Until after the war had already started, that is.
    Oooooh, I had completely missed stingy's post.
    Ok, here goes:
    To stingy:
    Exactly, it was an issue of state's rights, to a large extent, however, you fail to see the whole picture. One must remember the Alien and Sedition Acts(as well as the Naturalization Act, a seperate, to me, act, that falls under the scope of these acts), as a sign of what happens when there is too much power in federal hands. The South feared the loss of state rights, and, more specifically, the loss of the balance in power shared by the North and the South in previous years. One must remember that there is a long history for state's rights in America, notably the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions in 1798, the Hartford Convention(where many New England states talked about seceeding from the Union), and the South Carolina Nullification Ordinance of 1832, nullifying the Tariff of Abominations. As you can see, there is much precedence for the actions taken by the South.
    One must also not forget the economic implications, which are a huge factor in the cause of The War.
    Also, this:
    When they seceded, they took United States land with it. Now I don't know about you, but I would consider that as treason and seizure of governmental lands.
    is just plain bull. It is called the United States of America, the states joined the Union, and they also have the right to leave the Union. That land is not "governmenal land," that was state land, I see only tyranny and oppression when I see the Union trying to force the South to stay.

    And regarding:
    "Northern Aggression" only came about to absorb the South back into the Union.
    How is invading a group of states that seceeded(a precedent started, remember, by the New England states, the very states that were then saying secession is not allowed), and declared themselves a separate, sovereign nation, not a horrible thing?


    To Mojo:
    1. Sharpsburg is the other name for Antietam(and the true name), Manassas Juction is the other name for Bull Run(remember, there are two battles of Manassas, btw).
    2. You are correct about the draw at Sharpsburg, and the aftermath. Also, the main reason for the "Emancipation Proclamation" was to keep Britain from siding with the South(the North had boarded several British vessels, angering Britain), purely a political move(and a sneaky one at that, notice the fine print of the Emancipation Proclamation states that those living in northern slave states are still slaves), not for any altruistic reasons.
    3. Partly a reason for secession, I agree. Also, I think that Lincoln was a snake. Not very fond of him, at the very least.

  2. #102
    MojoMunkeez is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Ack, sorry, about the name. I mixed the two up. I had thought about Sharpsburg, but then I mixed that up with Vicksburg, which was a decisive Union victory.


    I agree that the South had every right to secede, though I would disagree with their pro-slavery policy.



  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MojoMunkeez View Post
    Ack, sorry, about the name. I mixed the two up. I had thought about Sharpsburg, but then I mixed that up with Vicksburg, which was a decisive Union victory.


    I agree that the South had every right to secede, though I would disagree with their pro-slavery policy.
    Granted, I disagree with it as well. In my defense, none of my ancestors had slaves. On that note, somewhere around 15 percent of the South actually owned slaves, however, only about one percent(if memory serves) owned more than 10. Most of those that had slaves only had one or two, and worked in the fields with the slaves and treated them as family(which also makes sense, as there would be one father and maybe two sons old enough to fight if anything bad ever happened, so, callous as it sounds, it makes sense to be close to those slaves, so they won't do anything to you). My family fought in the War becuase we were defending our homes, and family.

  4. #104
    MojoMunkeez is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    That's true, but the prevailing philosophy of most of the south at the time was that, although most were too poor to own slaves, they were at least worth more than slaves.
    Oneupmanship, if you will.



  5. #105
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    Strangely enough, in the South, there was a rising amount of abolitionism. Stonewall Jackson and Lee for example, were opposed to slavery on moral grounds but felt it was "God's will" at that time. I believe that, the way the South was headed, slavery would have ended in a generation anyway, it just wouldn't have stayed economically feasible.

    P.S. - Well, what you said mostly holds true, yes. Except for the Irish, who were believed to be below even slaves.

  6. #106
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    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    ;_; My poor family! People never believe me when I say they were treated worse than salves.

    I'm also magically Latina.

    I can throw like a man.

    I can breathe water

    I live in a coastal area with out beaches.

  7. #107
    MojoMunkeez is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by child_of_serenity View Post
    I live in a coastal area with out beaches.
    That's not a talent..



  8. #108
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    I mean I can go off topic with out even trying... not only that but I can change a topic with out any one realizing it was me.

  9. #109
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Nothing personal against Jakko, but I feel that I must comment on a few things he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko View Post
    Exactly, it was an issue of state's rights, to a large extent, however, you fail to see the whole picture. One must remember the Alien and Sedition Acts(as well as the Naturalization Act, a seperate, to me, act, that falls under the scope of these acts), as a sign of what happens when there is too much power in federal hands. The South feared the loss of state rights, and, more specifically, the loss of the balance in power shared by the North and the South in previous years. One must remember that there is a long history for state's rights in America, notably the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions in 1798, the Hartford Convention(where many New England states talked about seceeding from the Union), and the South Carolina Nullification Ordinance of 1832, nullifying the Tariff of Abominations. As you can see, there is much precedence for the actions taken by the South.
    If state rights were such an big issue for the south, why did they push so strongly for the Fugitive Slave law of 1850? It seems to me that the south had no qualms about extending federal powers when it was in their interest to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko
    It is called the United States of America, the states joined the Union, and they also have the right to leave the Union. That land is not "governmenal land," that was state land, I see only tyranny and oppression when I see the Union trying to force the South to stay.
    As far as I know, the US constitution doesn't give states the right to secede just because they feel like it, and quite rightly so. In a democratic country you are bound to respect the decisions of the majority, not just calling it quits as soon as someone that you disapprove of gets into office.

    Also, imagine the consequences if every state could leave the union at any time. The US would have fallen apart in no time.

  10. #110
    lionbeast is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    is this topic about natural talents or civil war. just wondering. never mind, i do not know much about this war because i'm luxemburger and we don't learn much about it so i must say it is interestening ( sorry if i write mistakes my english is not very good ).

 

 
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