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Thread: Ethical?

  1. #21
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Life over religious beliefs. It's even the law here in Canada, I think - the law says that those babies should be removed for medical care if the parents don't agree. (I remember reading that in another newspaper, so...)

    And I agree with what AK said.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  2. #22
    Aikido is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    yeah, its ethical for the government to give them blood transfusions. For me, the sticking point here is in two questions;
    1) to what extent can the religions (and subsequent rules, etc) of a parent be automatically transferred to their child
    and, following,
    2) what is it that is particular about the parent that gives these people complete agency over these babies as human beings, made clear in the extreme case of allowing these children to die because of beliefs that the child has not yet had any opportunity to affirm.

    I think the answer to one is "no." I think religion is ultimately and should be at its inception a voluntary, conscious choice made by each person. For example, suppose a child is born a vegetable, but due to medical care, has been kept alive for, say, 30 years. This person's parents are Christian, but I do not think that many people who say that this person is also a Christian. They have no physical way of realizing what that entails, and it's ridiculous to attribute religion as a trait in the same vein as something genealogical like "red hair".

    As for the second, I believe it is first and foremost the responsibility of the parent to ensure that their child is raised in such a way as to ensure to the best of their abilities that the child has a chance to gain as much agency over their life as possible. Death is the natural antithesis of agency.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealDragon View Post
    Prime example of the dilemmas and situations religion puts people in. Don't worry as soon as stem cells get the go ahead the exact same thing is gonna happen with other more widely accepted Christian factions.
    did you happen to catch the fairly recent medical release on amniotic fluid as a stem cell source/substitute? I know, its been around for a while, but it was made scientifically official recently, and bodes well for stem cell research because the fluid does not necessarily have to be taken from a cultivated fetus and circumvents most issues of ethics on the subject.
    Last edited by Aikido; 02-05-2007 at 09:20 PM.

  3. #23
    swoodles is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    wow, i nvr heard bout this news...

    i think the gov't did the right thing

  4. #24
    DBeRsErK is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    just a question. the biggest debate on abortion is when the child is aborted cause its parents dont want it right? the reason on not wanting arent much but they are still considered as the reason why abortion is accepted. now here we have the governement forcing something that the parents won't accept. so the parents knew the risk of getting seriously injured children, they knew their lives would be hard, both children and parents and they accepted it.... more then can be said for the people who have an abortion for stupid reasons. now the parents have their precious children contaminated....... now.. who will really take care of the children? if the children themselves are deemed unfit by the parents?

    i obviously dont agree with the way the jehova witnesses think. and i donate blood just to spite them but did the governement really think about this? isnt the governement just a bit dumb to allow abortion and all means of control against children and then come in to save children which are already deemed to have a hard life let alone now that the parents consider them unfit? Just a point to think about. considering that we are discussing death in other threads also wouldnt it have been better to let them die with the love of their parents? or is it better to let them live in pain ? probably disabled and without the true love parents can give? My opinion always

    P.S although the parents should care for the children no matter what... in our society this rarely happens and we dont condemn the parents who get rid of their unborn children so can we condemn these parents if they stop loving their child?

  5. #25
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    The government did the right thing by giving the transfusions. You don't have the right to let someone die just because you feel like it. Man, this is exactly why I believe that some people shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

    On the other hand, the government were a bunch of idiots when they returned the babies to the parents. You have two callous bastards who are willing to let their children die just to uphold their own delusional ideology, and just when you've forced them to not let their kids die, you hand them back.

    Brilliant thinking there, Canada.

    @DBeRsErK: Apples and oranges, man. Besides, the whole abortion topic has been dragged through here so many times that there is little point in discussing it anymore.

  6. #26
    StealDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aikido View Post
    did you happen to catch the fairly recent medical release on amniotic fluid as a stem cell source/substitute? I know, its been around for a while, but it was made scientifically official recently, and bodes well for stem cell research because the fluid does not necessarily have to be taken from a cultivated fetus and circumvents most issues of ethics on the subject.
    Yes I did and in fact I made a thread about it here. But I see none of the opposition changing their side due to that new breakthrough so its w/e


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  7. #27
    silverwmoon is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Here's a question, what if the kids who grow up with the jehovah's witness belief don't think it was right? Also, what about alternative methods?

    There is one girl, of age 14 who had cancer. She was a Jehovah's Witness, and the Canadian Government was going to orce her to take blood transfusions. She ended up going to the States to a doctor who specialized in treatement without blood transfusions. She is now cancer free. Did the Canadian government have a right THERE to force her to have blood transfusions? They thought she was under the thumb of her parents. What dying teenager would acutally stick to something they didn't truly believe?
    here's a link:
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=23700

    As for the kids however, I think it's only right if there were no alternatives.

    And here's another case:
    http://http://www.watchtowerinformat...ce.org/17y.htm

  8. #28
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    Then they can hate the government for the rest of their lives. You don't have CHOICE as a baby. You can't choose what you want to do or to have done to you even if you will later grow up to have an opinion.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  9. #29
    silverwmoon is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    Then they can hate the government for the rest of their lives. You don't have CHOICE as a baby. You can't choose what you want to do or to have done to you even if you will later grow up to have an opinion.
    Agreed, but what aobut the 14 year olds? the 17 year olds? Do they not get a say because the government tells us they are not old enough to make their own decisions?

  10. #30
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
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    I can't say anything on that because I feel that the age of majority should be lowered anyway... so I do believe people at that age can make their own decisions, but because I feel they are essentially adults (especially at 17), not because they can think for themselves. For a child of 8, for example... I'm not so sure. I think I'd rather let the government handle that.
    ~Digital_Eon~




 

 
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