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Thread: For the world?

  1. #41
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeHugger340 View Post
    Hm... I had always thought that communism (froms Marx, Enkai, Lenin, Mao) were classified as an ideology.
    The point is that dogmatic Marxism is structured exactly like a fundamentalist religious system.

    Dogmatic Marxism includes an "prophet" (Marx) who is regarded as infallible and elevated to the status of a demi-god. It also has its own "Holy books" (Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto) who are similarily infallible. It also splits humans ito the "faithful" (the proletariat) and the "unbelievers" (the bourgeiosie) and promises a paradise to the believers. I could go on, but I think that the point has been made.

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeHugger340
    Communism offers an ideal social state, who/what could cause/achieve that state, and what/who is preventing that.
    Communism isn't the same thing as Marxism. Rather, Marxism is a variant of communism.

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  2. #42
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  3. #43
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    child_of_serenity is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Now that is nifty and it improves the world.

  4. #44
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    wow... thats weird... because this thread is about how to improve the world yet here we are religion insulting and Nazi comparing yet again. At least i know theres a law out there that explains why. =D


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  5. #45
    TreeHugger340 is offline Banned Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou View Post
    The point is that dogmatic Marxism is structured exactly like a fundamentalist religious system.

    Dogmatic Marxism includes an "prophet" (Marx) who is regarded as infallible and elevated to the status of a demi-god. It also has its own "Holy books" (Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto) who are similarily infallible. It also splits humans ito the "faithful" (the proletariat) and the "unbelievers" (the bourgeiosie) and promises a paradise to the believers. I could go on, but I think that the point has been made.
    This variant doesn't match the works of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, or anything else I'm familiar with. As far as I know, the proletariat and the bourgeiosie are the middle class and the upper class (Mao used the lower class instead of the middle). Once the middle has suffered enough under the upper class, an agent will lead the middle class to overthrow the upper to eliminate class distinction. I suppose you could consider the middle class suffering as being "faithful", the upper class as "unbelievers" for oppressing the middle class, the class-less society as a "paradise". If that's the case, almost every other ideology could be consider a religion then.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by StealDragon View Post
    wow... thats weird... because this thread is about how to improve the world yet here we are religion insulting and Nazi comparing yet again. At least i know theres a law out there that explains why. =D
    Thats the way it is at stoptazmo, and yet you still keep commin' back for more.

  7. #47
    Saizou is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreeHugger340 View Post
    This variant doesn't match the works of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, or anything else I'm familiar with.
    You obviously haven't met some of the real whackos out there. Suffice to say, there are people who behave exactly as I described. The whole point is that the real dogmatic Marxists in the Soviet Union and China really thought like this.

    Keep in mind that I'm not talking about theorethical Marxism. I'm talking about the behaviour of dogmatic Marxists and the parallells to the behaviour of fundamentalist religious people.

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeHugger340
    As far as I know, the proletariat and the bourgeiosie are the middle class and the upper class (Mao used the lower class instead of the middle).
    No. The proletariat is the working class. The bourgeioisie is the class that exploits the working class. Historically. the upper and middle classes have been considered the bourgeioisie and the lower classes the proletariat.

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeHugger340
    Once the middle has suffered enough under the upper class, an agent will lead the middle class to overthrow the upper to eliminate class distinction.
    Once the faithful have suffered enough under the unbelievers, an prophet will lead the faithful to overthrow the unbelievers and create the kingdom of god.

    See any similarities yet? The rethoric is the same, it's just the terms that are different.

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeHugger340
    I suppose you could consider the middle class suffering as being "faithful", the upper class as "unbelievers" for oppressing the middle class, the class-less society as a "paradise".
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeHugger340
    If that's the case, almost every other ideology could be consider a religion then.
    If any ideology in interpreted dogmatically, the interpreter shares the mindset of the religious fundamentalist.

  8. #48
    Quiraikotsu is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^
    Are all Finnish people so dedicated in their posts? 0.o'
    And truthfully, there's no getting much better- let's just face the fact that we die, human race dies, Sun ends the hydrogen supply, and we get swallowed him.
    Hm?

  9. #49
    TreeHugger340 is offline Banned Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saizou
    No. The proletariat is the working class. The bourgeioisie is the class that exploits the working class. Historically. the upper and middle classes have been considered the bourgeioisie and the lower classes the proletariat.
    The working class were the middle in comparison to the rural farmers that Mao used. However, if we don't consider Mao's work, then you're correct.

    If any ideology in interpreted dogmatically, the interpreter shares the mindset of the religious fundamentalist.
    What the...
    Who can argue with this? Way to kill an argument.

 

 
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