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  1. #21
    Jakko's Avatar
    Jakko is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    But if theyre British citizens with british rights,then they ahve to pay taxes just like all the other British citizens.
    That was Aikido's and CPR's points. They DID NOT have the rights British citizens living in Britain had.

  2. #22
    MojoMunkeez is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Well, technically they did, it's just that British citizens back in Britain didn't have all the unfair taxes and Untolerable Acts heaped on their asses.



  3. #23
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    Well, technically they did, it's just that British citizens back in Britain didn't have all the unfair taxes and Untolerable Acts heaped on their asses.
    Or representation in the government, you know, one thing all the British citizens in Britain had. Tiny thing, no biggie. Being ordered around without a say, or at least a representitive that knows their ways and views is just piddling.

  4. #24
    Hanul is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Virtual representation,Virginia did it to their own people.Why cant the British?
    Plus the British living in Britian faced a harsher stamp act.Navigation acts were for mercantilism(which just about every european pwoer at that time was doing)

    And besides,those acts were blown way out of porportion.The Sugar act was a tax on luxary items that usually only the rich could buy.

    Until one has given everything, one has given nothing.
    óGeorges Guynemer

  5. #25
    MojoMunkeez is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Enter Samuel Adams and the Sons of Liberty..



  6. #26
    Hanul is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Sons of Liberty were terrorists,there I've said it.
    Theyre basically terrorists,they attacked government property,government officials, customs officers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    The Sons are widely known for their violent and destructive acts. Actions included burning effigies of local tax officials in the town squares, burning the crown officials' property while the owner was held to watch.

    British authorities and their supporters considered the Sons of Liberty as seditious rebels, and referred to them as "Sons of Violence" and "Sons of Iniquity." Latter-day historians have called them terrorists, a word that was coined during the French Revolution and gained new meanings in recent decades. Patriot mobs attacked the apparatus and symbols of British authority and power such as gentlemen's homes, Customs officers, East India Company tea, and, as the war approached, vocal supporters of the Crown.

    Until one has given everything, one has given nothing.
    óGeorges Guynemer

  7. #27
    Jakko's Avatar
    Jakko is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Plus the British living in Britian faced a harsher stamp act.Navigation acts were for mercantilism(which just about every european pwoer at that time was doing)

    And besides,those acts were blown way out of porportion.The Sugar act was a tax on luxary items that usually only the rich could buy.
    As to the Virginia thing, I have no idea what you are talking about, or where that came from, please explain what you mean.

    You forget one thing about the taxation. "Harsh" is all a matter of perception. The people of Britain may have had a harder stamp act, but at the same time, they had always had taxes, and were used to them. The Americans went from having none to having pretty stiff taxes. Taking that into comparison, I would say the Americans had it harder.

    Plus, you seem to forget the reason behind the smuggling in America, what rankled them. The Navigation Acts were for mercantilism, but this only helped the home country, and not the colonies, if anything, it treated the colonies as cash-cows. They forbid the colonies to sell to anyone but the British(who made sure to but below what it should have cost, as the colonists had no choice on who they could sell it to) though there were many Spanish, French, and Dutch traders that wanted the products. They forbid the colonies to to buy anything but British goods, meaning the British could charge whatever they wanted for the goods, and make it of whatever quality they wanted. Mercantilism can be a good thing or a bad thing, and this is a case where it was bad for the colonies. In that case, why would they not smuggle, when they were being treated so badly? And why would the Americans not resent it, when these laws that had no benefit, and only hurt to them, were forced on them, without anyone to defend their rights?

    Also, if you are so sure that other European nations had forms of the Navigation Acts during that time period, can you please tell us the name of those acts in those countries?

  8. #28
    Hanul is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    The virginia thing is from here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_representation

    Plus the Colonists had seveal advantages to the Navigation acts,for one thing they held a monopoly on such things as tobacco.Shipbuilding prospered in New England as result of the Navigation Acts.The colonists like I said had a monoply because the English were forbidden by law to produce it themselves(such as tobacco),which meant that the colonists had a monoply of those products/things.

    Navigation acts in other countries no,but I'm talking about the forms of mercantilism,Mercantilism arose in France as early as the 16th century. Mercantilism became prominent in Central Europe and Scandinavia after the Thirty Years' War (1618-164, with Christina of Sweden and Christian IV of Denmark being notable proponents. Russia under Peter I (Peter the Great) attempted to pursue mercantilism.

    Until one has given everything, one has given nothing.
    óGeorges Guynemer

  9. #29
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    The virginia thing is from here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_representation
    Funny thing is, this link you gave does not "cite references or sources." Kind of an important thing to have, especially in wikipedia, which is not a trusted information source, as anyone can make something up or change it at will. And, after searching several online encyclopedias, and my Encyclopedia Brittanica, and the Compton's Encyclopedia I have, I have come across some references of "virtual representation," but no evidence of the claim about Virginia's House of Burgesses' practicing this idea.

    Besides, the idea seems to contradict itself. Virtual representation is the idea that a Member of Parliament represents not only his region, but all of the British subjects everywhere(which was not fully clarified by your wiki article, by the way). This would not make sense if applied to the House of Burgesses idea mentioned(which I doubt was true in the first place), as representing someone when you are from a different region, and the idea that you represent all regions are two entirely different things.

    I really have to doubt the veracity of the Wikipedia article you showed, as it has no sources listed, and the information given(the House of Burgesses thing for example, which I can find mentioned nowhere else) contradicts with the information I have found out about "virtual representation," which I got from trusted sources.

    Plus the Colonists had seveal advantages to the Navigation acts,for one thing they held a monopoly on such things as tobacco.Shipbuilding prospered in New England as result of the Navigation Acts.The colonists like I said had a monoply because the English were forbidden by law to produce it themselves(such as tobacco),which meant that the colonists had a monoply of those products/things.
    ...You seem to be missing the point. The British had the only monopolies that mattered, the colonists had no advantages. Having a monopoly on tabacco or other such goods is no use, if you can only sell it to one guy. The tabacco has to be sold, it cost money and time to grow, and since the British had a monopoly on the buyers market, they could buy it for any price they wanted, as there was no competition, cheating the colonists and making them lose great amounts of money. The idea the ship building prospered as a result of the Navigation acts fails to have an impact here, in my opinion. If those ships could only sell to British, who could choose whatever price they want, and only buy from the British, who could charge whatever price they want, how does that help the colonists?
    Compare- In 1759, the Colonies sold 38,000 pounds worth of stuff, and bought 600,000, and most of that money came from smuggling(the economy would have collapsed without it, some say), does that seem like the Navigation Acts are "helpful" to you?

    Navigation acts in other countries no,but I'm talking about the forms of mercantilism,Mercantilism arose in France as early as the 16th century. Mercantilism became prominent in Central Europe and Scandinavia after the Thirty Years' War (1618-164, with Christina of Sweden and Christian IV of Denmark being notable proponents. Russia under Peter I (Peter the Great) attempted to pursue mercantilism.
    Yes, most European countries followed the idea of mercantilism at the time, but I can't think of any others that had such extreme acts like the Navigation Acts passed(the banning of goods and trade from other countries), which is what your original post seemed to imply.

  10. #30
    Hanul is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    My posts never implied it.

    About the wikipedia article,apparently the virginia thing has bee nther ever since that article was created,who ever put that in forgot to cite their sources,and I use what I can when I have to make not very much prepared statements and arguments.

    Helpful no,but even after the revolution the new states really had no money,they were no longer under the protection of the royal navy and now they could not trade with England,which hurt their economy badly.Not only that,with such a ship building program that the government supports means subsidaries for the businesses building such ships.Also about such things as tobacco and other products from the colonies,take Scottland,Scottland has the terrain/climate suitable for tobacco,but b/c of the government those early businesses shutdown while the colonial tobacco gain monopoly.

    Well I've used up all of my evidence/support/ect.Pretty hard trying to find new stuff for each and every argument thats come up even if those arguments sound repetitive.
    Last edited by Hanul; 10-11-2006 at 08:37 PM.

    Until one has given everything, one has given nothing.
    óGeorges Guynemer

 

 
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