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  1. #11
    kayangelus is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolpuprocks View Post
    Key words: "No Taxation without Representation"
    You know what is hilarious about that?
    The colonists brought the taxes on themselves.

    Simply put, when they began to settle into the Americas, the British colonies had to pay taxes. These taxes happened to be far less than the taxes payed by those living in Britain. Still, colonial merchants did not like having to pay any money to the British government, so they began to smuggle. Eventually the British government got tired of getting less money from taxes on trade, than the cost of the administration. So, they lowered many of the taxes, and put taxes on some other goods. Parliament did not think much about this, because those living in Britain were paying more taxes on those products than the colonists. Problem was, that they began to enforce these taxes. Colonists didn't like it, and started to protest, escalading to the Revolutionary War.

    You know, I wonder. If a city right now stated it would no longer pay taxes to the US government, because it did not have members in the Senata/House of Representatives, what do you think the government would do. Do you think the government would say that since they are not represented they don't have to pay taxes? Cause I highly doubt that, especially with the city still demanding government help for all the services it runs.


  2. #12
    Aikido is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I think there is a vast difference between a city within a state in a capitalist democracy and a largely ungoverned (or at the very least loosely governed) colony separated by the Atlantic Ocean that is part of an imperialist empire. (Not to mention given the technological restraints of the time).

  3. #13
    kayangelus is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Um... It was still a part of the nation.
    The conditions that the colonists used as excuses would still apply to a city.
    So, if you agree that these are good arguments for the Revolutionary War, you are either lying, being a hypocrite, or should agree that cities have the right to state so as well.


  4. #14
    Aikido is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayangelus View Post
    Um... It was still a part of the nation.
    The conditions that the colonists used as excuses would still apply to a city.
    So, if you agree that these are good arguments for the Revolutionary War, you are either lying, being a hypocrite, or should agree that cities have the right to state so as well.
    umm. no?
    the american colonies were not part of a nation. they were a colony in an empire. there is a difference, just based purely on the definition that political science today defines the two.

    and that being said, these arguments do NOT apply to cities. Cities are part of states, and the citizens of that city ARE represented through democratic process in the state and the nation on a number of levels. They are represented and they are taxed.

    In addition, individual cities also have the right to tax.

    EDIT: whooaaa CPR deleted her post. In response to that post CPR, no. It's just that people like revisionist history.
    Last edited by Aikido; 10-10-2006 at 10:00 PM.

  5. #15
    cpr's Avatar
    cpr
    cpr is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayangelus View Post
    You know what is hilarious about that?
    The colonists brought the taxes on themselves.
    The taxes were used to pay majority for the war and not addressing the smuggling issue.

    Now.. about that war...

    Britian declared war on France.

    Why? Was it because it wanted to "Defend its precious citizens?"

    No. It was because it wanted to "Defend its precious, cheap, valuable slave labor."

    Britain came anyway because Britain needed the colonies to continue acting as slave labor to the mother country and send valuable raw materials. These raw materials were used so Britain could manufacture goods and increase its economy.

    Once the slave labor was secured, Britain gladly decided to tax the shit out of them because "we fought this war for you.[colonies]"

    No. Britain fought the war for itself. It had its own agenda. States always have a motive for entering war. Why else would they be willing to kill their own men? They always have interests. No such thing as "I was fighting this war for you cause I wanted to be a hero." (which is exactly the perception I'm getting from Kay/Hanul)

    To say that the cause of the taxation was from the colonists/smuggling is absurd.

    @Aikido. Yea.. that's cause I wanted to write something else...

  6. #16
    rabidfuzzybunny is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    One aspect to the relationship between England and America prior to the revolutionary war was that England did not like its hard currency (coins) to be exported. This made trade in the colonies difficult and spanish dollars, minted in Spain’s American territory, became accepted currency even in Englands colonies. Those spanish dollars remained legal tender in the US until 1857. So the currency problem was another area of friction between England and the colonists.

  7. #17
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    Jakko is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    You know what is hilarious about that?
    The colonists brought the taxes on themselves.

    Simply put, when they began to settle into the Americas, the British colonies had to pay taxes. These taxes happened to be far less than the taxes payed by those living in Britain. Still, colonial merchants did not like having to pay any money to the British government, so they began to smuggle. Eventually the British government got tired of getting less money from taxes on trade, than the cost of the administration. So, they lowered many of the taxes, and put taxes on some other goods. Parliament did not think much about this, because those living in Britain were paying more taxes on those products than the colonists. Problem was, that they began to enforce these taxes. Colonists didn't like it, and started to protest, escalading to the Revolutionary War.
    From what I have read, this is pretty much across the board misleading or wrong. In the beginning, the British followed a policy of "Salutory Neglect." They allowed some smuggling to go on, and gave America freedoms, not because of any goodwill, but because they didn't really care, as long as they made profits, they were happy(especially since the smuggling was usually paid for under the table).
    The reason for the increased taxes, from what I have learned, was because of the rise of a new prime minister with harder views, and the debts from the 30 years war. The British had always looked down on others(the Irish, the Indies colonies, the colonies in India for example), and in a similar way, looked down on America. They saw us a a useful cash-cow, to be exploited for their own good.
    The Americans, at the onset of the taxes, rebelled against them(perhaps overreacting a little), for one that is used to no notice or regulations naturally dislikes sudden rules placed on them. This caused the British to clamp down further and, while the laws were not so harsh compared to the other colonies, in comparison to what it had been before, it was, "intollerable."

  8. #18
    K@jinKrew is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Wow my bad.

  9. #19
    vondg is offline Member Newbie
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    I be can gone
    Last edited by vondg; 01-21-2007 at 11:34 PM.

  10. #20
    Hanul is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Wow,never thought that I could get cpr mad enough to do ths...

    Well about no taxation without representation
    What about virtual representation,where every member of parliament represents the colonies?Even Virginia used virtual representation
    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Forms of virtual representation were not unknown in America. Legislators in the Virginia House of Burgesses could live in one district while representing another one.
    and yeah what Jakko said salutory neglect,and the new prime minister.But if theyre British citizens with british rights,then they ahve to pay taxes just like all the other British citizens.And the smuggling was b/c of mercantilism,b/c the colonists could get bigger/fatter profits if they traded to France,Spain, or Holland instead of just England,and the English,who were following the laws of mercantilism wanted them colonists to trade with only with them.

    Oh yeah and about John Hancock being nick named the king of all smugglers,my APUSH teacher told us that in my class b/c he smuggled so much that they gave him that nick name.
    Last edited by Hanul; 10-11-2006 at 12:43 PM.

    Until one has given everything, one has given nothing.
    óGeorges Guynemer

 

 
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