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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1
    Icy.Blitz is offline Banned Respected Member
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    Default Gun Control

    so is your power of attraction, god your killing me, i want you so bad right now..

  2. #2
    Jakko's Avatar
    Jakko is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ....Yes, that is Charlton Heston. He stepped down when he found out he had Alzheimer's. Now Wayne LaPierre is the president of the NRA. How do I know this? I am a member of the NRA.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coolerimmortal
    What's wrong with guns?


    They KILL!!!!
    That's idiotic. Really. You could just as easily say, "Can openers are evil! They kill!!!" A gun is no more than a tool. It is useful for entertainment, hunting, and self-defense. It is like any tool, not inherently bad, but able to be misused. It does not "kill" people, it is the guy pulling the trigger that kills. Nevor forget that, anything said otherwise is just inflamed rhetoric with no actual thought to back it up. Is a gun a living entity that consciously decides, "I want to kill that guy over there.",? No, it is not. Guns are great.


    P.S. - Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro are ruthless dictators, that both engaged in bloody rebellions that killed many people. They came to power promising to help their people, but, if you will notice, their people are still just as impoverished, and they are now rich men in the midst of this poverty(Castro made the Forbes list). They are not "heroes," they are scum, duping the populace, while growing fat off the misery.
    Last edited by Jakko; 07-22-2006 at 07:12 PM.

  3. #3
    Icy.Blitz is offline Banned Respected Member
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    <xterm> The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
    -(quote from bash.org)

    ok, the problem is many people are stupid, and stupid people do stupid things, like killing people. the accessability of guns in America means stupid people can do stupid things like killing people more easily. Do you see the problem?

    now, im assuming Jakko here is a self respecting American who sees the difference between doing something stupid, and something that isn't. A gun in Jakko's hands just means we see less of the stuff he claims is 'about to freaking kill him'.

    anyway guns suck because 'i jsut wanna piss without the fear of getting my penis shot'.

  4. #4
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    ok, the problem is many people are stupid, and stupid people do stupid things, like killing people. the accessability of guns in America means stupid people can do stupid things like killing people more easily. Do you see the problem?
    I disagree. As I see it, the problem is not the accessibilty of guns, but the lack thereof. The problem is that criminals will always be able to acquire guns, and thereby take advantage of people. However, guns are strictly monitored in the hands of law-abiding citizens, who will only use them for "good" purposes. The fact of the matter is, if a citizen is armed, criminals are less likely to attack someone(they are, on the whole, not all of them mind you, but most, a cowardly lot, only attacking when they have the advantage), and violent crime drops.
    That is why areas of the US with many guns, like that area of the US that I live in, have lower violent crime rates on average, and for another example, take Switzerland, where people are required to have guns in some areas, and crime is very low. Then, consider England, where privately held guns were banned. Violent crimes have risen, and deaths from hand guns have actually risen since the ban. All that control of guns does is disarm the people, not the criminal.

    As I see it, if gun ownership was more prevalent in law-abiding citizens, crime would drop. Heck, if select teachers at Columbine had firearms kept in storage, "just in case," I doubt that tragedy would have occured on the scale it did.

  5. #5
    Coolmasta89 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko
    I disagree. As I see it, the problem is not the accessibilty of guns, but the lack thereof. The problem is that criminals will always be able to acquire guns, and thereby take advantage of people. However, guns are strictly monitored in the hands of law-abiding citizens, who will only use them for "good" purposes. The fact of the matter is, if a citizen is armed, criminals are less likely to attack someone(they are, on the whole, not all of them mind you, but most, a cowardly lot, only attacking when they have the advantage), and violent crime drops.
    That is why areas of the US with many guns, like that area of the US that I live in, have lower violent crime rates on average, and for another example, take Switzerland, where people are required to have guns in some areas, and crime is very low. Then, consider England, where privately held guns were banned. Violent crimes have risen, and deaths from hand guns have actually risen since the ban. All that control of guns does is disarm the people, not the criminal.

    As I see it, if gun ownership was more prevalent in law-abiding citizens, crime would drop. Heck, if select teachers at Columbine had firearms kept in storage, "just in case," I doubt that tragedy would have occured on the scale it did.
    Well we all know that humans, by nature, tend to abuse whatever little power they have. Columbine is a perfect example of why gun ownership should not be made prevalent among citizens. Besides why would having fire arms in the storage help? You think the teachers will just go down to the storage, grab a shotgun, and pop a cap in the students ass? By increasing the accesibility of guns, you are merely creating more problems and more deaths.

    And I am going to assume you live in north carolina. Ever since the 1960's, north carolina has seen astonishing growths in crime rate. In 2000 North Carolina was ranked as having the 9th highest total Crime Index. So what I see is that areas with many guns, have higher crime rates. Thus guns =

    And yes we all know the stories of how old people in wheelchairs have successfully defended themselves against criminal acts, etc etc. But who do you think these criminals are? They are just the ordinary Joe's walking down the street. Turn on the news, the 'rapists', 'murderers' etc, all have once led normal lives. The neighbors of 'molesters' and 'muderers' always say that "we never would have thought he/she would kill/rape someone". Essentialy they were all once "law-abiding citizens". Can you see what I'm trying to say? It's only due to some fuked up reason that a person turns into a homocidal maniac. So its not true that "criminals will always be able to acquire guns", because most of them are after all, citizens. There are dangerous people in our society, but by making guns accesible, we merely putting weapons into the hands of dangerous people. Which is exactly why we should not increase the accessibility of guns to civilians.

    Yes well thats just my two cents
    Last edited by Coolmasta89; 07-22-2006 at 08:43 PM.


  6. #6
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    Well we all know that humans, by nature, tend to abuse whatever little power they have. Columbine is a perfect example of why gun ownership should not be made prevalent among citizens. Besides why would having fire arms in the storage help? You think the teachers will just go down to the storage, grab a shotgun, and pop a cap in the students ass? By increasing the accesibility of guns, you are merely creating more problems and more deaths.

    And I am going to assume you live in north carolina. Ever since the 1960's, north carolina has seen astonishing growths in crime rate. In 2000 North Carolina was ranked as having the 9th highest total Crime Index. So what I see is that areas with many guns, have higher crime rates. Thus guns =
    Actually, wrong.
    The kids from Columbine got their guns illegally, not from regular channels. No laws in the world could have stopped that, stopped the Black Market. Research a little better next time. They did not just go up to a store and buy the guns, which is where laws come into play. And I am speaking of storage inside the classroom, say, in a locked chest or desk, with the magazine kept on the physical person of the teacher, so that if the area were ever broken into, it is no more than a glorified paperweight.

    Also, you are wrong about North Carolina as well. The state is ranked 11th highest in forms of population. Violent crimes(as in, the ones with guns and knives, the ones we are talking about), not petty crimes, it is ranked 18th not at all a bad thing when you consider its ranking in population. And you fail to take into consideration the fact that North Carolina has more than doubled since 1960(notice that the survey ended in 2000, if you check current statistics, it HAS more than doubled). That accounts for a great deal of this, because you fail to take into considerization the social aspect. That great increase did not come from North Carolinians in large part, that, the majority came from people out of state moving to North Carolina. Take, for example, the city of Charlotte, NC, which has more than tripled since 1960, so that its city proper is almost 700,000, and its metro area is about 1.5 million. Those people came with many diametrically opposed ideas to the original Carolinians like myself, and cause that great gap. Of course, this is all a moot point, because I was referring to the Appalachian mountain region of NC, where I hail from, that has some of the lowest crime rates on average around. It is them dang valley dwellers that are the bad ones, the people of the Piedmont. =p

    Thus, your argument=bull.

  7. #7
    Denisse is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko
    That's idiotic. Really. You could just as easily say, "Can openers are evil! They kill!!!" A gun is no more than a tool. It is useful for entertainment, hunting, and self-defense. It is like any tool, not inherently bad, but able to be misused. It does not "kill" people, it is the guy pulling the trigger that kills. Nevor forget that, anything said otherwise is just inflamed rhetoric with no actual thought to back it up. Is a gun a living entity that consciously decides, "I want to kill that guy over there.",? No, it is not. Guns are great.
    Your ideas of justice are WRONG. You support guns, but you attack the people who use them (You're contradicting yourself).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakko
    P.S. - Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro are ruthless dictators, that both engaged in bloody rebellions that killed many people. They came to power promising to help their people, but, if you will notice, their people are still just as impoverished, and they are now rich men in the midst of this poverty(Castro made the Forbes list). They are not "heroes," they are scum, duping the populace, while growing fat off the misery.
    Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro would be nothing without guns. You're right, the both of them are dictators, and responsible for the death of many people, but they care about the poor, and their governments are fair. (But maybe you're right, and the price was too high)

    Well, the fact is that you don't know anything about the Latin American system, after all, your country is very strong, and it have the highest rate of killings.... You're not even from South America, so please, don't speak about things you don't know.

    That's idiotic.

    The people of Cuba and Venezuela can be free and independant thanks to those two killers (Yeah, they ARE killers, just like Bush, but with the difference that they are dear to their countries), so please.... shut up!!!.

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    Newbie is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Yeah, why did you list Cartman ... he is a fictional cartoon character. >_<

  9. #9
    Icy.Blitz is offline Banned Respected Member
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    Well look, it all pretty much boils down to personal opinion in the end. Since Jakko is assuming the use of guns to kill people, (or defend) i'll do the same. Personally i believe that no-one has the right to take another's life. Jakko here may disagree. (after all, if some rapist came along and did horrific things to your daughter (this is a hypothetical situation) who wouldn't want to reach over, grab that gun and pop a few caps into the rapist)

    But the fact is, countries with a ban on guns have MASSIVELY lower 'death by gun' rates then AMERICA. this is 100% true, and un-disputed fact. now, Jakko will probably say, crime rate and death by gun are two different things. (Jakko has been using the argument of crime vs gun, i on the other hand believe having a gun in the first place is a crime)

    now a major point Jakko is trying to make is, 'fight fire with fire,' in this case to beat a gun, get a gun, or something SIMILAR to that. so thus i ask you, what if there was no gun to begin with, a drop in crime ---> drop in death rates ---> drop in bad things overall. why this sudden drop? because holding a gun gives the user a sense of power, and power leads us to do crazy things that we normally wouldn't do.

    but anyway, the point im trying to make is this: it's up to personal opinion. people like Jakko and I could argue all day and not reach a conclusion, why? because we each believe to different things. the justice system in different countries also differ.

  10. #10
    Jakko's Avatar
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    Your ideas of justice are WRONG. You support guns, but you attack the people who use them (You're contradicting yourself).
    ???
    What in the world are you talking about? I attack people that use guns? Where did you get that?
    Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro would be nothing without guns. You're right, the both of them are dictators, and responsible for the death of many people, but they care about the poor, and their governments are fair. (But maybe you're right, and the price was too high)

    Well, the fact is that you don't know anything about the Latin American system, after all, your country is very strong, and it have the highest rate of killings.... You're not even from South America, so please, don't speak about things you don't know.

    That's idiotic.

    The people of Cuba and Venezuela can be free and independant thanks to those two killers (Yeah, they ARE killers, just like Bush, but with the difference that they are dear to their countries), so please.... shut up!!!.
    Dear or not, let us look at the facts. They promised to help the people of their countries out of oppression. They have not. Chavez has had years to do it, Castro, decades. If they were going to help their people, they would have done it by now. The fact of the matter is, they are not the good people that the people of the country think them to be, and no matter how "dear" they are to their own people, they still are misusing them, and that is not something to be praised. As I see it, when government has that much control over the people, they are neither "free" nor "independant."

    And according to this ( http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita ), the US does not have the highest murder rate per capita(reported. There is speculated to be a much higher rate unreported in areas like Sudan), we are in fact #24. Lets see who is around the top. Oh, Columbia at #1(shocker), Jamaica #3, Venezuela #4(Now, who is the leader of that country, who talked about stopping such things?), Costa Rica #19.

    By the way, you are contradicting yourself. You say that I am not South American, and therefore have no right to judge them, or the way things are in that area. At the same time, you feel you have the right to judge my leader, and the way he does things. That is, as I see it, hypocritical. You cannot ask someone to not do something, while doing the very same back. I may not like my President(I don't), but I do not see him as a "killer."


    P.S. - I just saw you PM from a while back, Denisse. Sorry about that, I was just stressed, and overreacted. By the way, I am just debating here. Keep calm, this is just a series of arguments back and forth, nothing more, nothing to get heated over.

    P.P.S. - I gotta get some sleep, but I would love to continue this tommorrow, though I would prefer it if there were more people willing to argue alongside me. 3 against 1 isn't really fair, though it is kinda fun!
    Last edited by Jakko; 07-22-2006 at 09:07 PM.

 

 
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