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  1. #91
    sakura_hana is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx View Post


    As for mangas and animes. I do not want to store countless books and dvds of animes in my house. I can just delete things after reading 'em or watchin 'em. Heck i dont even have to download anymore, they are sites offering them for free to read or view online. Does that make me smart? heck yea
    Ok, the music people stereotype is fine with me. Most of them are really rich anyway. But hell, Japanese animators are the worst it can get. They're paid like shit and work 3 times harder than most American people, whose jobs end at 4pm. Most of them stay over the weekends and the myth with "sleeping on their studio's floor isn't really a myth because it's happening. With the amount of money they're paid you can't leave decently.
    And now, everyone downloads their work for free and no one cares. Until the studios fail I guess.

  2. #92
    Chaoswind is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    because you arn't an asshole and want to help and thank the people that made the movie/game/software...
    and because it's illegal maybe ? lol
    I am sorry, but I am indeed an asshole!!!

    In the words of a friend of mine.

    Everything is legal, it just that some things carry social consequences ^_^

    Just don't get caught!!!
    -----------------------------

    On a serious note
    if you have the money, buy it
    If not, get it for free
    DEAD TO THE RETARDS!!!
    DEAD TO THE FANBOYS!!!
    DEAD TO THE WERESHEEP!!!

  3. #93
    BlueDemon is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Well I actually don“t download any movies,only things I do are just reading manga online and perhaps downloading a song or 2.And I don“t think I actually damage the industry,cuz I wouldn“t buy the things even if they wouldn“t be available on the Internet - and I go to the theatres (now and then xDD)

  4. #94
    Urameshi-sama is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    because you arn't an asshole and want to help and thank the people that made the movie/game/software...
    and because it's illegal maybe ? lol
    I guess I'm an asshole too then.

    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_hana View Post
    Ok, the music people stereotype is fine with me. Most of them are really rich anyway. But hell, Japanese animators are the worst it can get. They're paid like shit and work 3 times harder than most American people, whose jobs end at 4pm.
    Be careful with that kind of generalization. Though Americans are commonly considered lazy and dumb by most parts of the world (not denying these here), they have a much more hardcore work culture than Europe does (do a google search if you don't believe me). In fact, the only region that trumps the US is non-Western Asia. The people who work the hardest are the extremes of the poor and the rich. The poor will work multiple jobs (often starting the next one after checking out of their 1st job at 4...) while the rich work long hours because they make so much money during those hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_hana View Post
    Most of them stay over the weekends and the myth with "sleeping on their studio's floor isn't really a myth because it's happening. With the amount of money they're paid you can't leave decently.
    And now, everyone downloads their work for free and no one cares. Until the studios fail I guess.
    That's true for most artistic and related professions (and performance based ones too), if you haven't noticed.
    But as for online downloading, that is more a result of poor online infrastructure. TV stations have started to counter the illegal distribution of their shows by creating online sites; some manga producers could do the same, and in the process become watchdog groups for free scanlations.

    Of course, this would suck for us if it happened, though it wouldn't happen any time soon (I mean, look at how hardcore communities like ours is? And these companies have made little efforts to be watchdogs anyways).
    Stolen Sig Count: 26

  5. #95
    sakura_hana is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama View Post
    Be careful with that kind of generalization. Though Americans are commonly considered lazy and dumb by most parts of the world (not denying these here), they have a much more hardcore work culture than Europe does (do a google search if you don't believe me).
    I don't know and I also believe that you wouldn't know either. I've been to America and I haven't seen many people working after 4 or 5.
    As one of many examples.. I've lived for 6 weeks near some big ass office building and those guys never worked Mondays.Also when I came back from classes at 4, I knew for sure no one was there. ( big windows)
    On the other hand I know lots of people in europe who work easily till 9 o'clock.
    But maybe that's just me, I wouldn't know for sure.


    That's true for most artistic and related professions (and performance based ones too), if you haven't noticed.
    Don't give me the stereotype. Artists living in cockroach invested apartments right? It may have been true some time ago but now the possibilities are endless. I'm not talking about those who...dunno...paint and expect to actually sell stuff without a manager or somehing. No. Those are just unadapted persons of the modern society.And most of them should just settle with something else if they see they can't handle it.

    Companies pay pretty well for designers nowadays and in general any kind of artist working for a company has a stable job with a decent salary.
    On the other hand, Japanese animators (even those working for big companies like IG productions or whatever) still have a very shitty salary in comparison to artists from other countries. And that's a fact.
    I'm not even going to compare the animation industry in japan with the one in America (since these are the most famous ones). It would be useless and the conclusion is obvious.

    It's easy to understand why Japanese animators are so poor.The competition. And the low funds to begin with ( in comparison with America. again). And of course, the internet.
    But even so, I still believe this could be transformed into a good business. Though at the moment I'm not seeing it happening.

  6. #96
    infamouse is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_hana View Post
    I don't know and I also believe that you wouldn't know either. I've been to America and I haven't seen many people working after 4 or 5.
    As one of many examples.. I've lived for 6 weeks near some big ass office building and those guys never worked Mondays.Also when I came back from classes at 4, I knew for sure no one was there. ( big windows)
    Sakura I never new that America is some dream world where no one works on Monday and none one would dare work past 4.
    I must not live in America. I wonder what weird country I live in then.
    Ura are you living in this weird country that I'm living in too.

    Well sakura most people who work in a big office aren't poor so they can work only to 4 and and not on monday .

  7. #97
    Urameshi-sama is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_hana View Post
    I don't know and I also believe that you wouldn't know either. I've been to America and I haven't seen many people working after 4 or 5.
    As one of many examples.. I've lived for 6 weeks near some big ass office building and those guys never worked Mondays.Also when I came back from classes at 4, I knew for sure no one was there. ( big windows)
    On the other hand I know lots of people in europe who work easily till 9 o'clock.
    But maybe that's just me, I wouldn't know for sure.
    1) You were living on a college campus, and you expect to see real businesses in session around you? And, you're ignoring the season.

    2) Your 6 weeks experience in US==my 10+ years here? And as for foreign experiences, I've lived in 2 other countries for 3+ years. Sorry, I'd almost say your entire statement is invalid after you tried to pull this crap. Besides, I wasn't basing my comment on personal experience.

    3)Why did you think I was trying to get you to see the stats? Because you clearly wouldn't buy it on such subjective lines and would think it was some perverse form of nationalism that I've yet to express. Well, since you've already gone and presented judgmental and very false claims on the issue, I take it you haven't looked on the googler as I requested if you didn't believe me. Well, since you're so busy, let me give you a few quotes and their set of links:
    Quote Originally Posted by [URL="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E01E7D91630F934A2575BC0A9659C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all"
    source 1[/URL]]American culture, after all, breeds what may be perceived as workaholic behavior. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says Americans work 49 hours a week, on average -- 350 hours a year more than most Europeans do. A recent survey by the online travel company Expedia.com found that about 12 percent of American workers took no vacation because they were too busy working.
    Quote Originally Posted by [URL="http://www.failuremag.com/arch_flop_workaholics.html"
    Source 2[/URL]]If you don't think you're a workaholic but still feel you work too much, you're not alone. As a general rule, Americans don't have much time to recover from work-related stress, with ten days considered the norm for annual vacation time. Compared to European standards that is downright miserly. In the Netherlands, the minimum number of vacation days per year is 24, decreed by law. Employees are obligated to work no more than 40 hours per week and rarely venture to the office on weekends. Ligtenberg says, "I worked parts of two weekends last year, and that's very much on the high side for my firm." Mountside typically offers 24-31 vacation days—or "holidays," as they say in much of Europe—but "our number of holidays is very low compared to bigger companies," notes Ligtenberg.
    Quote Originally Posted by [URL="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002027666_doers06.html"
    source 3[/URL]]Nearly 10 million Americans worked more than 60 hours a week last year, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics found. We've outpaced the famously productive Japanese in hours worked. We're the only developed nation without mandatory vacation time. And, according to Expedia.com's annual vacation poll, one in three of us will take no vacation this year.

    Some of this is due to economic pressures: We put in longer hours because we need the money or because our boss wants to squeeze more out of us. If we're not the doer driving the schedule, we're the one being driven
    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_hana View Post
    Don't give me the stereotype. Artists living in cockroach invested apartments right? It may have been true some time ago but now the possibilities are endless. I'm not talking about those who...dunno...paint and expect to actually sell stuff without a manager or somehing. No. Those are just unadapted persons of the modern society.And most of them should just settle with something else if they see they can't handle it.
    Artists and performers do have a much more competitive climate to face because they have so much competition and the classical job for them requires more skill and creativity due to this competition. More importantly, it's a harsher climate for them because there is much less demand for them than supply, unlike more traditional occupations for which there might always be a good demand and relatively smaller supply for. On the modernity you speak of, I agree that most artists nowadays have managers to keep them in decent (yes, I am understating) economic standings, but, the field is still harsh and career mobility as an artist is still quite difficult.
    Companies pay pretty well for designers nowadays and in general any kind of artist working for a company has a stable job with a decent salary.
    On the other hand, Japanese animators (even those working for big companies like IG productions or whatever) still have a very shitty salary in comparison to artists from other countries. And that's a fact.
    I'm not even going to compare the animation industry in japan with the one in America (since these are the most famous ones). It would be useless and the conclusion is obvious.

    It's easy to understand why Japanese animators are so poor.The competition. And the low funds to begin with ( in comparison with America. again). And of course, the internet.
    But even so, I still believe this could be transformed into a good business. Though at the moment I'm not seeing it happening.
    I agree completely with this. In fact, I pretty much said the same thing about the animators in my last post (remember the whole internet thing...), though I did generalize out to art too (which still holds true in comparison to other industries imo). Another few points I'd throw are business infrastructure (design has a much more solid one than art) and differences in commercial demand between design and animation, and how the revenue is split (the team sizes involved in the art endeavors matter here).

    P.S. I was actually offended when you wrote the whole comment on the U.S, especially since you wrote it with such scorn and because it doesn't hold true. Next time actually look for some facts before using your very insular 6-week college experience in Boston as a representation for most of the country. This country has a lot of polarity, so unless you've actually been to a lot of places within the states, you should be careful before generalizing.

    Edit: Some more sources you could use to corroborate those articles, if you thought they were crap or biased:
    http://www.bls.gov/fls/flscomparelf.htm
    http://laborsta.ilo.org/
    http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/statistics/index.htm
    Last edited by Urameshi-sama; 09-02-2008 at 04:06 PM.
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  8. #98
    sakura_hana is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^ yep. I know I was wrong. Completely biased by the places I visited in the US and probably the place and community where I live right now.
    I'm sorry I offended anyone here, most of all you. It was not my intention.

    And about the artist issue. Well, not many of traditional artists are left. And most of them do go into advertising and marketing.Everything that you say has been made and thought out by a graphic designer or illustrator. (not talking about product design here but fields that actually trabsform fine arts into something more practical). Milton Glaser.
    Last edited by sakura_hana; 09-03-2008 at 03:00 AM.

  9. #99
    MadDogMike is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I wonder if it's occurred to any of you that buying second hand music/movies/games hurts their industries just as much as piracy does. If you're going to buy second hand you might as well just pirate and save yourself a few more dollars, as none of your money will make it back to the creators anyway.

    I choose not to pirate most things, unless it's not available to me for some reason. I download all of my music, but if something I download is really good I usually go out and buy the CD.

  10. #100
    4n0n„m0µ$ is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Hey, it lowers my carbon footprint if I don't drive into town for every crap cd or dvd

    rATHER save the planet than teh industry xD

 

 
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