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Thread: Systems

  1. #21
    Flab is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Is Japan fine then? I need to escape somewhere without power plants and nano technology.
    I don't want to end up like Shautieh who is Radioactive from generations.
    Clicky the jelly if you can read Japanese

  2. #22
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    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    no, i said that the cloud stopped at my country's frontier !!! it's true ! -_-"


    for your country, i guess the plant are far safer than tchernobyl was (and lots of Tchernobyl like plants who are still running.... argh >.>)
    lets just hope that a big earthquake doesn't break one
    Last edited by shautieh; 05-27-2006 at 12:54 AM.

  3. #23
    Flab is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Stopped? Aww.. (bit sadist, actually)

    ...... Now THT didn't come into mind. Earthquakes, yes(' =') Actually My place would sink as part of sea
    so tht solves the problem of me emitting radioactive waves. Oh, but I can torment ppl I hate with it.

    With new tech Ill escape to Jupiter, the biggest planet suited for me.
    Clicky the jelly if you can read Japanese

  4. #24
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flab
    Stopped? Aww.. (bit sadist, actually)
    yeah, but it stopped BEFORE entering my country hopefully !!

    at least that's what the government said XD

  5. #25
    Aradiel is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh
    it was an old sovietic era design, and that's NOT what i would name a "good" design....
    I personally thought that using water as the collant and the mediator was ingenious.
    and up till now we don't know for sure what caused the explosions, so even with better safeguards it could have happen...
    Actually, I learnt about it in Physics A level - we do know. They were running security tests, turning off some systems to see if others worked properly. But, they shouldn't have been able to turn off some of the systems they did.
    I'm not sure exactly which systems, since I only know the physics of the things, but that is what we were taught.

    [edit] The explosion was because of the coolant - by turning off whatever they did, the coolant stopped pumping. When water gets that hot it turns into steam and expands - that was the explosion, the pressure from the steam blew the top of the building off, and took some of the uranium with it.
    "Beer is the mind killer. Beer is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me and through me, and when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    Make beer, not war.

  6. #26
    TC Tham is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    geezz.. i take engineering.. but i don't think i'll get to learn much about this.. my course is electric and electronic.. interesting facts you all have stated up there.. even tho it left me totally befuddled @_@??

  7. #27
    shautieh's Avatar
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    i went to a conference not so long ago with one of the remaining "liquidator" and he said the causes are not well known and there are several theories.... (though the consequences were what you said)


    about the design, some facts i just found that seems accurate :
    - the reactors were of RBMK type, which were known to be unstable at low power, and the tests were precisely low power tests....
    - inserting the control bars took up to 20 seconds (<2 seconds in all other types of reactors) which is FAR too long in case of problems !!
    furthermore they have carbons caps, which adds reactivity..
    - the moderating function (to slow down neutrons) was played by graphite, which ignites in contact of air...

    and to all that, 6 human errors were made (and if only 5 off the 6 were made, there wouldn't have been an explosion)

  8. #28
    Aradiel is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh
    furthermore they have carbons caps, which adds reactivity..
    But Carbon is the most stable element.
    - the moderating function (to slow down neutrons) was played by graphite, which ignites in contact of air...
    Sorry - in the reactors that we tend to use now, Graphite (which is made only of Carbon) is used as the moderator. In Chernobyl it was water, which became heavy water once it absorbed neutrons.
    "Beer is the mind killer. Beer is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me and through me, and when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    Make beer, not war.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradiel
    But Carbon is the most stable element.

    Sorry - in the reactors that we tend to use now, Graphite (which is made only of Carbon) is used as the moderator. In Chernobyl it was water, which became heavy water once it absorbed neutrons.
    i only translated some parts of an article i found
    for the carbon cap problem, don't ask me why but it had been seen before in 1983 on a reactor RBMK of a lithuanian central (Ignalina).... but it's all the info i have ^^"

    about the moderator, it says that no occidental reactor (with under pressure water and boiling water) uses graphite or other inflammable substance....

  10. #30
    Aradiel is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh
    about the moderator, it says that no occidental reactor (with under pressure water and boiling water) uses graphite or other inflammable substance....
    What? You're saying if it uses water it doesn't use graphite?

    Reactors use grapphite instead of water as the moderator. I can't remember perfectly, but the rods in the most common reactors in western countries are grahpite (read, carbon.) I am unsure of what they use as coolant.

    Personally, I trust my physics course more than an article on the internet.

    [edit] Having also checked with someone else, I feel it is worth mentioning that Graphite is not flammable. ([edit2] Unless in a very bizzare set of circumstances, but in a nuclear power station is not one of those instances. Hell, I think that the main exterior is made primarilly out of graphite because it's so good at keeping in the readiation.)
    Admittedly, the mediators are mainly grapphite, with perhaps an extra bit in, but that depends on the reactor itself.
    Last edited by Aradiel; 05-27-2006 at 09:31 AM.
    "Beer is the mind killer. Beer is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my beer. I will permit it to pass over me and through me, and when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. When the beer has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    Make beer, not war.

 

 
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