Thread: Ichi's Hollow?

She can´t be a hallow,

Hollow-->Hou Gyoku-->Shinigami-->Stealth Gigai->Human

That's how I see it.
I know, the method sounds weird, but that's what the manga says as far as I recall.

I think Rukia's transfering of powers, and his mom's death have somthing to do with it, maybe it's just his ridiculously high spirit pressure

Originally Posted by bill altkin

That would explain her detecting the hollow that killed her.

When does it say she did that? As far as I remember, Ichigo ran off down a hill towards a river, and she chased after him.

It just seems to me that any normal mother would chase after their son in such a situation, so to think that she detected the hollow (unless it's specifically stated) seems a bit of a stretch, if you ask me.

Originally Posted by bill altkin

She can´t be a hallow,

Hollow-->Hou Gyoku-->Shinigami-->Stealth Gigai->Human

That's how I see it.
I know, the method sounds weird, but that's what the manga says as far as I recall.

That what the manga says? Don´t repeat bullshit. And a hybrid form wouldn´t change her hallow nature. Morever wouldn´t she lose against a mere hallow in a hybrid form with a zanpakuto.

When does it say she did that? As far as I remember, Ichigo ran off down a hill towards a river, and she chased after him.

As I said, it's a theory and a far fetched one. Yet, just consider chapters 19 to 25 never came out and all we had was the flashback from 19 showing Ichigo's mother's demise. Had I said "perhaps the kid was a hollow", I'd got remarks such as "We have no proof, you fucking retard".
Same thing if anyone had mentioned the possibility of Ichigo's father being a shinigami before chapter 187.
But yes, I agreed before and I agree now: it's a really wild guess.

That what the manga says? Don´t repeat bullshit.

chapter 175, p 12: "he created a mechanism that could instantaneously transform a hollow into a shinigami (...)"
p 15: "he created a gigai completely undetectable (...) it turned shinigamis into normal beings"

What I was saying is that it was a possibility, not a fact. In that very case, yes, that's what the manga says.

He was talking about the hyo goku, how it works and what Urahara did, you combined that with Ichigo´s mother, which is bullshit.

Don´t jump to conclussions.

Don't mistake me with the usual "Hey! I've never seen Chad chew bubble-gum, neither have I seen Hollows doing so. So Chad must be a hollow!!!" type of forumer.

You say Ichigo's mother just wanted to save him from falling into the river. Maybe. She didn't say "watch out for the river!" nor "watch out for the girl!" so both our arguments have the same weight. One of us is wrong and yes, it could be me.

The way the scene is drawn, there are a lot of things that could be said/guessed. Seeing the distance between Ichigo and his mother when she calls after him, that would mean she only caught up with him when he reached the hollow. So the latter was aware that Ichigo could see him and yet, it made the mistake of letting him alive.
There are a lot of holes since it is also the recollection of a kid's memories, so it's unreliable.

It's written all over my post: it's a supposition, not a conclusion. The Romeo&Juliette style of Ichigo's parents coming from opposite sides just sounded plausible in a story-telling way of thinking.

Ichigo's hollow and Zangetsu seem to have known each other for a long time, so setting the hollow's origin to Urahara's training is not an option, to me. Of course, it could be seen as a metaphor of the young man's anger as much as any hollow is the concentration of the human being's dark feelings but as an element of the story, its origins must have an explanation as much as Ichigo's shinigami powers which were latent until Rukya's arrival.

As for the shinigami powers, they clearly were inherited from his father. The hollow's origin *could* be from his mother.
Yet, you've got the vizards, and you couldn't explain their nature with them being *all* issued from shinigami/hollow couples.
But that would be an elegant explanation for the main character's difference with them.

We're discussing around a manga, not a mathematical theorem. Rules can be bent and if everything could be guessed based on solid proofs, there would never be any surprises.

All this will be a lot clearer after Ichi's father's story gets explained.

Originally Posted by bill altkin

Don't mistake me with the usual "Hey! I've never seen Chad chew bubble-gum, neither have I seen Hollows doing so. So Chad must be a hollow!!!" type of forumer.

You say Ichigo's mother just wanted to save him from falling into the river. Maybe. She didn't say "watch out for the river!" nor "watch out for the girl!" so both our arguments have the same weight. One of us is wrong and yes, it could be me.

Same weight? She rescued Ichigo thats a fact, everything which goes further than that isn´t based on reliable evidences.

Ichigo's hollow and Zangetsu seem to have known each other for a long time, so setting the hollow's origin to Urahara's training is not an option, to me. Of course, it could be seen as a metaphor of the young man's anger as much as any hollow is the concentration of the human being's dark feelings but as an element of the story, its origins must have an explanation as much as Ichigo's shinigami powers which were latent until Rukya's arrival.

Bullshit, how come you think that? We saw his hallow side during the fight with Kempachi, so some time passed since he reaquired his shinigami ability. What we didn´t know at that time (even though there were hints for it) was, that he achieved hallow abilites as well, so he is a hybrid since that time.
The only think the hallow side said toward Zangetsu was, that Zangetsu should train him well because he will control him "He will be mine" when the time comes.
It wasn´t a conversation between friends nor did it reveal that they know eachother well.
Maybe you missed Zangetsus monologue after this conversation, he said he hates rain (Ichigos hallow side is the reason for it, so it was a metaphor for Ichigo´s psychological distracted mind) because he is all alone in this world, and that he would do everything to support Ichigo (overcome the hallow side).

As for the shinigami powers, they clearly were inherited from his father.

I agree

The hollow's origin *could* be from his mother.

Just tell me... why? First the hallow mask appeared for the first time after the scene in the shattered shaft, never before this scene.
Second a hallow can´t be kind, a spirit can, but only a weak spirit (sadness, hatred etc.) becomes a hallow.
Thats why I think its totally bullshit, morever there aren´t any evidences to think that way

Yet, you've got the vizards, and you couldn't explain their nature with them being *all* issued from shinigami/hollow couples.
But that would be an elegant explanation for the main character's difference with them.

WTF? I don´t even understand what you trying to say. Shinigami/hollow couples? I don´t think you even understood the manga. Vizards were shinigami who acquired hallow abilities, we don´t know if they had something like the hyogoku, but that doesn´t mean they fucked with hallows...
Ichigo doesn´t want to side with anyone, everything he wants is to protect his friends and repay his debt to Rukia, it´s simple, isn´t it?...

Originally Posted by bill altkin

Ichigo's hollow and Zangetsu seem to have known each other for a long time, so setting the hollow's origin to Urahara's training is not an option, to me.

Apart from the reply you've already got, I'll add this:

Zangetsu and the Hollow would know each other because they are both aspects of Ichigo's soul, but that does not mean that the Hollow has been there since birth.
Hollows are pretty much psychotic mass-murderers, the dark personality within everyone enhanced once they have lost their heart (metaphorically. When the chain dissolves)

Maybe you missed Zangetsus monologue after this conversation, he said he hates rain (Ichigos hallow side is the reason for it, so it was a metaphor for Ichigo´s psychological distracted mind)

Or maybe because it was raining the day Ichigo's mother died. Zangetsu and the Hollow representing Ichigo's superego and id, respectively.

there aren´t any evidences to think that way

Thus the word "supposition".

WTF? I don´t even understand what you trying to say. Shinigami/hollow couples? I don´t think you even understood the manga.

Sorry, I should have put something like "yet" to show I was countering my own point of view in order to put it in perspective. Holy cow! I did!

Ichigo doesn´t want to side with anyone, everything he wants is to protect his friends and repay his debt to Rukia, it´s simple, isn´t it?...

Still, he replies to the vizard "I'm a shinigami".
Have I understood the manga? Perhaps no, I don't have that pretention. But I've read many and their usual pattern is about young people overcoming their inheritance, growing up to be individuals.
Ichigo's torn between shinigamis and hollows. His father is a shinigami. I supposed his mother had been one, leaning my theory over technical points mentioned in the story.
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