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  1. #21
    jhodder is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/284/06/

    The above page states that cannibalism is how they become Adjuchas. It comes from the Chapter that depicts Grommjow's history; it is not a historical bias based on the Gotei 13 or Soul Society, but a flashback with narration.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/285/07/

    This page from the next chapter indicated that they kept eating Hollows to become Vastro Lorde, but never reached that pinnacle. This is evidence, and not just speculation. Theorize all you want, but a Vastro Lorde CANNOT be made without cannibalizing what must be thousands of Hollow. He is simply a powerful Hollow, but only a Hollow; if he became a Vastro Lorde through cannibalizing Hollow, I am fairly certain he would be absolutely unstoppable by anything.

  2. #22
    Yazen is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    A vastolorde isn't some type of new being jhodder. Which, I think, is why you are so dead set and blind jhodder. Vastolorde is just a power class. Grimmjow is speaking from his own experience. It would be stupid if all the hollows used DIFFERENT ways other than the default way to evolve. That's what makes Ichigo's hollow so special. He somehow grew above all the classes without having to eat any hollows.

  3. #23
    jhodder is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Vastro Lorde is not JUST a power class; it is an evolutionary class. They go from Giant, uniform Gillian, to unique looking Adjuchas, to human sized and shaped Vastro Lorde, with their power levels exploding in difference as they go. Hollow Ichigo, from a power level standpoint could certain be a Vastro Lorde or even higher, but from the scientific classification, he would be considered just a standard Hollow.

    Let it die at that Yazen; you get to be right in saying he is that powerful, but if you want to keep arguing that he is a Vastro Lorde, it is simply speculation that has no grounds that you keep blaming on a lack of information when the facts don't match your desired result.

  4. #24
    Yazen is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I'll let the argument die. I was getting sick of it. It's not desired result either. It's truth.

  5. #25
    jhodder is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazen View Post
    I'll let the argument die. I was getting sick of it. It's not desired result either. It's truth.
    If it's truth, then present an idea based on some evidence. Truth has evidence; speculation and theory are not truth.

  6. #26
    aeturnus is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Knowing that: a) it's a story and b) the only prerequisite for becoming a Vastro Lorde is eating ramen, if Kubo decides to put that into the story, I'll continue to argue... because I'm bored.

    Yes, there is the narration about how hollows eat other hollows and 'evolve' into different classes, I was referring to hitsugaya's original description which classifies their power. First, lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary. Just because a narration says, x+y=VL, doesn't mean that x+s≠VL. One route to a power class is detailed, not precluding other, less common ones. Additionally, if you think of two adjuchas who have half the power of a VL, one eating the other would become a VL. I-Ichigo might be considered the other adjuchas whom he's dominated, and Ichigo acts as the second adjuchas, because we know that there's a thin barrier separating shinigami and hollow, and he's broken it.

    We know that one hollow (amalgam of personalities)+however many thousands of hollows is a Vastro Lorde. We also know that some souls are stronger than others, and thus more capable of dominating other hollows, or winning within the throngs of hollows. Speculating, it's only natural that there's a learning curve for figuring out how to move the Gillian body, and dominate however many other souls are there. In essence, it's like having to fight inside and declare yourself king of the body ('king vs. horse' rings bells). The power of the 'horses' gives you greater ability, putting you into a different class. A VL doesn't have to constantly deal with the hollows he consumed; they're literally more like food that were broken down for energy. The way the adjuchas talk about eating other hollows implies that they're not in any way threatened as 'kings'. It is also narrated that the dominating consciousness is a single exceptional personality (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/284/06/), controlling the power of the constituent hollows. Ichigo has done that, having conquered (read as 'eaten') his inner hollow. If shinigami can get better through training, why not hollows? Ichigo just 'ate' his inner hollow who formed at the time he gained shinigami powers, who increased his power along with Ichigo.

    Additionally, it's not hard to believe that the souls who become hollows are weaker souls, either in power or will, and will thus in general find the easiest way to up their power to be eating other people.
    Last edited by aeturnus; 08-18-2009 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #27
    tfs08933 is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhodder View Post
    Vastro Lorde is not JUST a power class; it is an evolutionary class. They go from Giant, uniform Gillian, to unique looking Adjuchas, to human sized and shaped Vastro Lorde, with their power levels exploding in difference as they go. Hollow Ichigo, from a power level standpoint could certain be a Vastro Lorde or even higher, but from the scientific classification, he would be considered just a standard Hollow.

    Let it die at that Yazen; you get to be right in saying he is that powerful, but if you want to keep arguing that he is a Vastro Lorde, it is simply speculation that has no grounds that you keep blaming on a lack of information when the facts don't match your desired result.
    Actually if we look back, Ichigo did transform into a unique looking Adjuchas when he fought the Viazards. Then he "evloves" to become more human sized and shaped when he fought no.4. What we must remember is that Ichigo was already strong to begin with, thus making it reasonable for a skip in the evolutionary process of becoming Vast Lord (refering to gillian->adjuchas). It is true that hollows have to go through this cannibalisation process to become Vast Lord. But Ichigo is no hollow, he is a hybrid, thus his process would naturally differ.
    As we know how Hollows evolve, we also know that Shinigami get stronger through training. Since Ichigo is both a Shinigami and Hollow, it is possible that his training process led to his "Hollow" part into becoming Vast Lord. The classification of Vast Lord is clear (very powerful human-looking hollow), and under that classification, Ichigo is or is close to one.

    Regarding the evolutionary process, we must remember that this only applies to weak hollows. Multiple weak hollows then form together to form a gillian with little to no intelligence. There is no way a Captain turned hollow would be a "standard hollow" or gillian with the amount of spirit energy he'd have. He'd have to be an adjuchas or above, as the Viazards have proven.
    Last edited by tfs08933; 08-29-2009 at 04:22 PM.

 

 
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