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  1. #31
    DivineVTDragon is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathbringerpt View Post
    Stark is a much laid back guy compared to to both Halibel and Barragan, to me, him being surprised is just a sign of his personality and not his strength.
    Being surprised by another enemies technique shows weakness rather than personality.

    Ikkaku puts his own needs and ideals first instead of the stability of the world, that makes Ikkaku selfish, not a coward and thatīs what Iba was lecturing by claiming that Ikkaku was a "spoiled baby".
    It's also cowardly because he also states that he had all the power to defeat him, yet he chose to hide his true strength. That's why Iba also insinuates that he is a coward and selfish to boot.

    Kenpachi released prisoners to meet Ichigo and fight with him again in the middle of a serious crisis.
    Some could argue that by releasing the small prisoners, he would get to take out the big guy, ie Ichigo. Seriously, what was Orihime going to do to him, she and the others were no threat at all. He killed two birds with one stone, he would get a chance to fight Ichigo and still be obeying orders.

    Kenpachiīs obeys orders when they please him, when they donīt he just sits on his ass, I seriously doubt thatīs following orders.
    I doubt that. Why else would he go to the real world after Orihime "defected" to take Ikkaku + Yumichika home? He could have just sat on his ass since there wasn't any fights.

    Ikkaku just has a different approach when he neglects his duty but itīs very similar to Kenpachi.
    Ikkaku's approach indeed still fails. However, to say that Kenpachi neglects his duty, which has yet to be seen disobeying orders, especially those given directly from Yamamoto.

  2. #32
    ranteil is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Well, I hit on most of that in my prior post. In short: Kenpachi only hides his power because he has too much of it, and he enjoys fighting. Thus he limits himself to a resonably lower level unless the opponent is stronger. Then he uses every trick he knows to beat them, and doesn't feel ashamed, but rather refreshed. Ikkaku hides his streangth without regard if he could beat his enemy. Rather he hides his strength based on who might see.

    Also another note in defence of the main diffrence between the two: Kenpachi does follow orders when they are given to him directly. Sure there might be a rule not to break out prisoners, but no one told him that he can't take them out of their cells. Just that he can't break them out. So what if he over-sees an "exersize routine" using the prisoners, no one told him that he couldn't do that.

  3. #33
    Deathbringerpt is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Being surprised by another enemies technique shows weakness rather than personality.
    Hum....no it doesnīt. At least not in this case.

    Stark wasnīt mouth opened or showing fear, he was genuinely surprised by Yamaīs attack.

    Hailbel was surprised at Grimmjaw and Ichigoīs fight in Hueco Mundo but she still stared at them with her usual emotionless face which is a sign of her personality.

    It's also cowardly because he also states that he had all the power to defeat him, yet he chose to hide his true strength. That's why Iba also insinuates that he is a coward and selfish to boot.
    Iba called Ikkaku stubborn and selfish, he never called him a coward. Iba rather told Ikkaku to act in ways he views as cowardly tactics, you should read that conversation again.

    Some could argue that by releasing the small prisoners, he would get to take out the big guy, ie Ichigo. Seriously, what was Orihime going to do to him, she and the others were no threat at all. He killed two birds with one stone, he would get a chance to fight Ichigo and still be obeying orders.
    Yes, "some" could argue but not the Gotei 13, Kenpachi didnīt only released only Orihime, he released her, Ishida, Chad and the sand dude. And at least Ishida was strong enough to defeat Captains and yet Kenpachi released them all the same. It doesnīt matter how weak or strong they were, he still broke the law therefore making your argument flawed.

    Why do you think that Tousen and Komamura stopped him?

    Kenpachi broke the law and didnīt even tried to hide it, rather, he said that he was fucking insane and told both of them to go at him.

    So we have Kenpachi breaking enemy prisioners and fighting Captains because of his initial felony.

    Yeah....

    Describing this as anything but insubordination and disregard for law and order is ludicrous. Kenpachi acts almost exactly like Ikkaku and like i said, the only difference here is that he doesnīt hold back (That is, only when he sees that his adversary is strong enough).

    Ikkaku's approach indeed still fails.
    Indeed it does but thatīs not my point.

    I doubt that. Why else would he go to the real world after Orihime "defected" to take Ikkaku + Yumichika home? He could have just sat on his ass since there wasn't any fights.
    The fact that he acted there by orders of Yamamoto doesnīt clear the fact that he almost always acts on his whims, plus there *was* the possibilities of fights since they were there to stop Ichigo in case he objected against Yamaīs order.

  4. #34
    DivineVTDragon is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathbringerpt View Post
    Hum....no it doesnīt. At least not in this case.

    Stark wasnīt mouth opened or showing fear, he was genuinely surprised by Yamaīs attack.

    Hailbel was surprised at Grimmjaw and Ichigoīs fight in Hueco Mundo but she still stared at them with her usual emotionless face which is a sign of her personality.
    She showed an emotionless face because

    1) She's stronger than both of them
    2) Her fraccion was there, and she told them not to be afraid.

    It's not a sign of weakness that she didn't show emotion, maybe that is her persoanlity, emotionless-ness. We haven't seen anything from her besides that comment, and now.

    Iba called Ikkaku stubborn and selfish, he never called him a coward. Iba rather told Ikkaku to act in ways he views as cowardly tactics, you should read that conversation again.
    I didn't say Iba called him cowardly, I called him cowardly. Think about that conversation deeply. He's "hiding" his powers, like a coward, and would rather take the easy way out than to show that there's something more to him. He thinks that he's replaceable and that in itself is a cowardly act.


    Yes, "some" could argue but not the Gotei 13, Kenpachi didnīt only released only Orihime, he released her, Ishida, Chad and the sand dude. And at least Ishida was strong enough to defeat Captains and yet Kenpachi released them all the same. It doesnīt matter how weak or strong they were, he still broke the law therefore making your argument flawed.
    Ishida was already injured, the guy from the shiba clan was also injured, and Chad was of no threat. That's HIS reasoning, like how he just kicked ichigo aside because he was in the way. All throughout SS, Ichigo was a primary target of Kenpachi, what happened when he was injured and a stronger enemy was in the way? He ignored him and tossed him aside. The same thing he did with the rest of the guys.

    It's not flawed, you just have to use a thinking process other than looking at "wooh, he did wrong."

    Why do you think that Tousen and Komamura stopped him?
    Three reason

    1) Tousen hated him.
    2) Kenpachi wanted to fight him.
    3) komamura was on Tousen's side

    Kenpachi broke the law and didnīt even tried to hide it, rather, he said that he was fucking insane and told both of them to go at him.
    Kenpachi only saw it as a means to an end, and doens't matter how he gets to it. He used Orihime and friends to get to ichigo, who was the biggest threat to SS. The captains just got in his way.

    So we have Kenpachi breaking enemy prisioners and fighting Captains because of his initial felony.
    Low alert prisoners. If they were high alert prisoners Soi Fong's squad would have taken them and put them in her prison. Again ichigo was the main enemy of the time, especially when all the prisoners were captured. He just simply took the people close to him to lead him to Ichigo.


    Describing this as anything but insubordination and disregard for law and order is ludicrous. Kenpachi acts almost exactly like Ikkaku and like i said, the only difference here is that he doesnīt hold back (That is, only when he sees that his adversary is strong enough).
    I do agree that Ikkaku tried to act like Kenpachi, but not vice-versa. Insubordination? Yes, to a point. Disregard for the law? No. He did what he could to take out the main threat, whether it means taking the other enemies to lead him to him and taking out captains.


    The fact that he acted there by orders of Yamamoto doesnīt clear the fact that he almost always acts on his whims, plus there *was* the possibilities of fights since they were there to stop Ichigo in case he objected against Yamaīs order.
    Always acts on a whim? No, that one time proves that he doesn't act on a whim. Usually acts on a whim? Maybe. That one scene shows us that he does abide by the laws, and he does put duty above all others. At the (first) meeting he was told to apprehend the Ryoka, and so he did just that, to do everything he could to do that. Ikkaku was told to protect that pillar, but no, he let it destroyed. They are not the same.

    As for that scene, yes, maybe there was a fight, but since there is such a distinction and bond between all of them, they would never go against them. Ikkaku and Yumichika obkecting? Nope. Hitsugaya objecting? Renji objecting? No. Ichigo objecting? He's not going to accept help if help isn't willing to give itself to him.

  5. #35
    Cueny is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Some could argue that by releasing the small prisoners, he would get to take out the big guy, ie Ichigo. Seriously, what was Orihime going to do to him, she and the others were no threat at all. He killed two birds with one stone, he would get a chance to fight Ichigo and still be obeying orders.
    Yes, "some" could argue but not the Gotei 13, Kenpachi didnīt only released only Orihime, he released her, Ishida, Chad and the sand dude. And at least Ishida was strong enough to defeat Captains and yet Kenpachi released them all the same. It doesnīt matter how weak or strong they were, he still broke the law therefore making your argument flawed.

    Why do you think that Tousen and Komamura stopped him?

    Kenpachi broke the law and didnīt even tried to hide it, rather, he said that he was fucking insane and told both of them to go at him.

    So we have Kenpachi breaking enemy prisioners and fighting Captains because of his initial felony.

    Yeah....

    Describing this as anything but insubordination and disregard for law and order is ludicrous. Kenpachi acts almost exactly like Ikkaku and like i said, the only difference here is that he doesnīt hold back (That is, only when he sees that his adversary is strong enough).
    You gave an uncorrect information and can't see the fact.


    First, at that time Ishida doesn't have power anymore.

    And even Zaraki doesn't know that, in Ishida current condition or his skill I think Ishida is like a small fly for Zaraki.


    Second, No one believe a small fly group like this kill Aizen. 8th captain confirm that.

    Yes Zaraki break the rule but he isn't do that with no reason like Ikkaku(his reason is stupid too much for call that is a reason)


    Well, I hit on most of that in my prior post. In short: Kenpachi only hides his power because he has too much of it, and he enjoys fighting. Thus he limits himself to a resonably lower level unless the opponent is stronger. Then he uses every trick he knows to beat them, and doesn't feel ashamed, but rather refreshed. Ikkaku hides his streangth without regard if he could beat his enemy. Rather he hides his strength based on who might see.

    Also another note in defence of the main diffrence between the two: Kenpachi does follow orders when they are given to him directly. Sure there might be a rule not to break out prisoners, but no one told him that he can't take them out of their cells. Just that he can't break them out. So what if he over-sees an "exersize routine" using the prisoners, no one told him that he couldn't do that.
    I don't well in English. But I agree with you this is what I am thinking.

  6. #36
    KyokushiNanaya is offline Senior Member Regular
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    He's selfish but not cowardly. We've seen him go up against odds before. A find him quite arrogant too.

    Join us and continue her job.

  7. #37
    krazykwasi is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    OMFG. are pple in this thread THAT stubborn?? Any time i poke my head in here theres always ONE mofo person responding to 5+ quotes. This shit's too long and petty. "Who's more selfish Ikkaku or Kempachi??" or "who follows the rules more Ikkaku or Kempachi??" are yall serious?? They BOTH ARE BADBOYS 4 LIFE!! Even renji's a badboy.

    Havent yall realized that ever since ichigo showed his face to soul society more and more shinigami started questioning their morals and beliefs and in turn act based on personal feelings rather than duty? Rukia, Momo, Shunsui, Ukitake, Renji even that bitch medical boy hanataro disobeyed orders.

    So trying to figure out who's right and wrong between Kempachi and Ikkaku's stupid.. this arguement could go on forever(if yall consider this and arguement in the first place).

    "He is now declaring his words to the WORLD!"

  8. #38
    Cueny is offline Senior Member Regular
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    ^^^

    You say that but you are the most one that said Ikkaku right or wrong and you even said Ikkaku like Zaraki.

    You said all that and you call it stupid, It seem you are stu...!

  9. #39
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post
    OMFG. are pple in this thread THAT stubborn?? Any time i poke my head in here theres always ONE mofo person responding to 5+ quotes. This shit's too long and petty. "Who's more selfish Ikkaku or Kempachi??" or "who follows the rules more Ikkaku or Kempachi??" are yall serious?? They BOTH ARE BADBOYS 4 LIFE!! Even renji's a badboy.

    Havent yall realized that ever since ichigo showed his face to soul society more and more shinigami started questioning their morals and beliefs and in turn act based on personal feelings rather than duty? Rukia, Momo, Shunsui, Ukitake, Renji even that bitch medical boy hanataro disobeyed orders.

    So trying to figure out who's right and wrong between Kempachi and Ikkaku's stupid.. this arguement could go on forever(if yall consider this and arguement in the first place).
    yea you have to admit that Ikkaku or should i say Kubo Tite was pretty LAME. he wasted a whole chapter on a stupidity.

    Arrancar: "why won't you fight me?"
    Ikkaku : " cause i'm too strong....!"

    LOL, I thought it was a joke when i was reading the reason why Ikkaku lost. I swear to god i was laughing on the stupidity of chapter. I couldn't believe it. I was expecting a "YOU'VE BEEN PUNKED" at the end of the chapter.

  10. #40
    krazykwasi is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cueny View Post
    ^^^

    You say that but you are the most one that said Ikkaku right or wrong and you even said Ikkaku like Zaraki.

    You said all that and you call it stupid, It seem you are stu...!
    ?? uhh grammar check son. Learn to talk first b4 you say something to me.

    My POINT was i dont get why pple are trying to deeply analyze and separate the two because its clear as day that they BOTH are not 100% team players. Kempachi wanted to find ichigo so that he could fight him so he, without regards for his duty as a captain, set some prisoners free. Ikkaku, without regards for his duty of guarding the pillar, refused to defend it all his strength like he was supposed to. They both have their own set of morals that come in front of duty. Similar. fine.

    And since when did i say ikkaku was right or wrong you dumbass!!
    Last edited by krazykwasi; 10-06-2008 at 10:32 PM.

    "He is now declaring his words to the WORLD!"

 

 
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