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  1. #31
    Rumina Asagi is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    He beat the assistant captain of 4th company and two others with his hands. Note that this was a very short time from just acquiring bankai and being healed in that spring that yoruichi has. In short, he was more prepared to fight than they were, and in the case of kotetsu, she was never gonna take him on and win >_>

    As for his dad, when did he ever say his reiatsu didn't compare to ichigo's? He's never spoken much about his strength at all, or even released his zanpakuto at all. he sliced an arrancar in half with his unreleased sword. How the hell would ichigo match that right now? As for his powers, shinji and the other vaizards are all made out to be far more powerful than him, as well as having increased endurance and ability during the hollow transformation. Are any of them broken? >_>

    The hypocrisy in my previous post isn't my fault - after all, I never designed ichigo. I'm merely stating my take on things. You don't need to be so defensive, nobody is gonna argue that ichigo's character isn't broken, that would be stupidity. But let's face it - clearly some of the captains ichigo fought in soul society were holding back - and even then he only really fought two of them. There's absolutely no indication that ichigo is stronger than ALL of them, merely that he has the potential to be even stronger.

    Again, he IS broken. But he's the main character in a shonen jump manga. What are you expecting?

  2. #32
    Deathbringerpt is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    These are the same vice captains that Ichigo beat easily, some he didn't even use his Zampaktou to dispatch them(and those had more experience than him).
    Ichigo never fought anyone that are protecting the pillars right now expect, of course, Ikkaku. And ranks don´t mean jack shit in Bleach really, Renji is a VC, Ikkaku is a VC, Yumichika is a 5th rank, hell Ichigo isn't even ranked. And all of them are much better than they are supposed to be according to their rank.

    Also Kira had the obvious advantage since he only needed to get one clean strike to get his victory.

    I´d reckon the same would go for the Arrancar, Grimmjaw´s fraccion could be stronger than say, these fraccion that are trying to destroy the pillars right now.

    You´re being way too simplistic about this xxDoLLarBiLLxx. This isn´t Dragon Ball Z surprising at it sounds.

    Also, Grimmjaw was totally fucked up when he fought Shinji so that´s not even close to a good example.

  3. #33
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumina Asagi View Post
    He beat the assistant captain of 4th company and two others with his hands. Note that this was a very short time from just acquiring bankai and being healed in that spring that yoruichi has. In short, he was more prepared to fight than they were, and in the case of kotetsu, she was never gonna take him on and win >_>

    As for his dad, when did he ever say his reiatsu didn't compare to ichigo's? He's never spoken much about his strength at all, or even released his zanpakuto at all. he sliced an arrancar in half with his unreleased sword. How the hell would ichigo match that right now? As for his powers, shinji and the other vaizards are all made out to be far more powerful than him, as well as having increased endurance and ability during the hollow transformation. Are any of them broken? >_>

    The hypocrisy in my previous post isn't my fault - after all, I never designed ichigo. I'm merely stating my take on things. You don't need to be so defensive, nobody is gonna argue that ichigo's character isn't broken, that would be stupidity. But let's face it - clearly some of the captains ichigo fought in soul society were holding back - and even then he only really fought two of them. There's absolutely no indication that ichigo is stronger than ALL of them, merely that he has the potential to be even stronger.

    Again, he IS broken. But he's the main character in a shonen jump manga. What are you expecting?
    It's not that, It's just that Kubo Tite Disregard all the rules he has set just for "Flair" Factor. I think he's a poor writer.
    I do agree with you that Ichigo's character is broken, Kubo Tite has botched the development of the character.
    Here are the three factors that broke his character beyond repair:
    1. The fact that Kubo made his hollow come out right after he learned Bankai.
    2. The effect of the sudden hollow? well that negated his bankai
    3. And with a negated bankai, his shikai became useless
    *Thus the character is broken. My question is : "didn't all those shonen mangakas learn from negatives of DBZ?" I think so far the only person who has masterfully learned from that is Kishimoto(Naruto). And Oda has countered the DBZ negatives with clever writing.

  4. #34
    Ziazca is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    I'll have to agree with DollarBill on Kubo Tite. He is a poor writer in some aspects, but I still like Bleach as flawed as it is. XD

    Ichigo's apparent abilities just bug me. He's supposed to have massive reiatsu and a super fast bankai. Unfortunately he can't do anything cool with his massive reiatsu, like pressure the shit out of his opponents with the fuzzy line effect (I guess because he still can't do crap in controlling his reiatsu)... and his super fast bankai? Not so super and not so fast. Hell, I thought that was the whole 'ability' of his bankai, to compress his power into a smaller size to be more effective in combat. It just seems nowadays, Ichigo's bankai is all but useless against the current level of enemies.

    And the Visored, well we know they're all captains and vice-captains. So along with however long they've been shinigami, they have that experience/abilities and the hollow powers. I could see Shinji beating Grimmjow at full power.

  5. #35
    Rumina Asagi is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx View Post
    It's not that, It's just that Kubo Tite Disregard all the rules he has set just for "Flair" Factor. I think he's a poor writer.
    I do agree with you that Ichigo's character is broken, Kubo Tite has botched the development of the character.
    Here are the three factors that broke his character beyond repair:
    1. The fact that Kubo made his hollow come out right after he learned Bankai.
    2. The effect of the sudden hollow? well that negated his bankai
    3. And with a negated bankai, his shikai became useless
    *Thus the character is broken. My question is : "didn't all those shonen mangakas learn from negatives of DBZ?" I think so far the only person who has masterfully learned from that is Kishimoto(Naruto). And Oda has countered the DBZ negatives with clever writing.
    For my part the 'broken' part comes in the form of, like a lot of manga, all ichigo ever has to do when he's losing is shout that he doesn't wanna die, or he wants to be stronger, and some random power up gets pulled out of his ass. That's always bugged me.

    I don't read naruto (because the characters annoyed me :P) but I think I can guess which part of that story you mean they've learned from, if the spoilers i've heard aren't trollbaiting stories.

    However, concerning ichigo's hollow transformation, technically, it DOES make sense that it would show itself so soon. The hollow was there even when Zangetsu revived him to keep fighting Kenpachi Zaraki. It's feeding just as much on his growth rate as it is his actual reiatsu levels. While it would have made more sense if it had taken longer to tame than a few chapters (and I mean more an extended time, rather than doing it right away for 11 seconds) you can see how it works out - The hollow is feeding off of ichigo's power, waiting to try to take over his body. Because he is growing at a speed far in advance of the rate he's mastering his abilities, ichigo was always in danger of it taking him over easily.

    Kubo may not be the best writer around, but hold back your expectations and the manga is fun. The characters are a little more human than most, and the setting itself is.... i'm struggling for a way to put that lol. I just enjoy it >_>;;

    Again, considering ichigo's bankai, it's not nearly as powerful as it seems. You have a point in asking how he's fought for this long, struggling, while the vc's are wiping the floor with the arrancar - quite frankly even in the soul society arc you se that ichigo can't even maintain the bankai for long. That he's suddenly holding it constantly is just... odd. I'm sure the fight with ulquiorra probably will reveal something or other to at least attempt to explain this. I just hope it's not a random power up, and ichigo's increasing endurance in such a short time isnt' as nonsensical as you seem to believe it is. I'd say to just wait and see what happens, really =/

  6. #36
    chinsee is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx View Post
    My question is : "didn't all those shonen mangakas learn from negatives of DBZ?" I think so far the only person who has masterfully learned from that is Kishimoto(Naruto). And Oda has countered the DBZ negatives with clever writing.
    uhh naruto? seriously? naruto, sasuke and kakashi are all unexplainably strong monsters... with powers that are unbalancedly rigged from the very beginning.

    I mean infinite chakra is already a bit unbalanced... not to mention the DEM eye that both kakashi and sasuke has, eyes that have been shown in the last chapter as being unbeatable no matter how strong the opponent is...

  7. #37
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinsee View Post
    uhh naruto? seriously? naruto, sasuke and kakashi are all unexplainably strong monsters... with powers that are unbalancedly rigged from the very beginning.

    I mean infinite chakra is already a bit unbalanced... not to mention the DEM eye that both kakashi and sasuke has, eyes that have been shown in the last chapter as being unbeatable no matter how strong the opponent is...
    really? Naruto is an extremely weak character(why do you think he's training for). Sasuke and Kakashi were always strong, that's what Kishimoto told us since the begining. We have been told that you can't counter a mange sharingan user's techniques without being a Sharingan user yourself(pretty consistent with what happened this past chapter correct?).
    Back to bleach, Kubo Tite told us that Ichigo was monster strong, He told us that Ichigo had a monster amount of reiatsu. he told us that Ichigo's bankai made him move at lightning speed, yet most characters now can keep up with him with Shunpo(see the irony here? Ichigo can also do shunpo, so what is the use of his bankai?). On top of Ichigo's "monster" bankai reiatsu, he gave Ichigo vizard which amplified his reiatsu even more. yet ichigo struggles to beat opponent who when you think about it, are weaker than him, even when he's in his bankai form with a mask on.

    I will not keep repeating myself. If you want to see what i said, scroll up.

  8. #38
    BlueDemon is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^Well you sure are right,but I think Kubo has to keep Ichigo down.As you said,with this logic he should be PWNING all people in his way and then the manga would be over.
    But I have an explanation - he can´t master his inner hollow as good as the others.And that´s prolly why he´s gonna win now against Ulquiorra,because he´s gonna do it properly.Of course this is just a theory,but oh well.
    and at the guy who said Ikkaku is VC on the previous page -> he is 3rd seat (perhaps on VC lvl and higher,cuz he can do bankai)

  9. #39
    ranteil is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Okay, I can see where DoLLarBiLL is comming from now, and yah, in short he is right. That being said, I still can't recall where any non-hollowized/vizardised person is able to keep up with Ichigo's Banki. Granted this is a side note and not terribly important to any coherant arguement. What is important to the arguement (expecially by bringing in Naruto) is that Ichigo can't controle his reiatsu. If you state that there are inconsistancies in his power, just remember that since that is the one thing that stays the same. Ichigo can direct his power (that is what happens when he focuses) but he can't controle it (turn it off, raise/lower the amount of power used, or form it). That is where the blade comes in. The blade feeds off of this power and gives Ichigo some form of controle. However since this is secondary, it is far from perfect. Also the Mask (as you stated) amplifies his power. If you can't controle your own power, and something gives you more, would your controle be perfect?

    So on to why it was bad to compare to Naruto? We have seen so many inconsistancies in Naruto that it is rediculous expecially with the Sharingan which is what your arguement states as consistant. The Sharingan is broken by the Mangaka because of the general love for the charactor who has it, I state this because we have seen it "broken" (or nullified) by people without it as a power. And yet, you complain about Ichigo being on a flex in power when he can't even controle his own power by himself? To me that one "inconsistant" aspecet is what Tite has keept up with the best.

  10. #40
    benny22 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    I'm just curious to know when people were able to keep up with ichigo's bankai speed other than the grimjow and espadas of higher rank. i'm thinking that i must have missed the scene where it was shown, but i just can't recall it right now. dollarbill, if you don't mind, can you please remind me, thanks.

 

 
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