Thread: Bleach: Chapter 324

Originally Posted by erachima

Ichigo's never fought an arrancar that wasn't either an espada or a former espada. In his fight vs. Dordonii, he COULD have beaten the guy with his shikai, but chose not to in order to be nice.

Basically, the question you're asking is the same as saying "how come Ikkaku had trouble beating Edorado without his bankai when Rukia was able to beat D.Roy in one attack?" And the answer is the same in both cases: D.Roy is a hell of a lot weaker than Edorado, and these fraccion are a hell of a lot weaker than the Espada and Tres Cifras.

Also, in case you haven't noticed it yet, Ichigo not being the strongest guy around is one of his key character themes. It's what makes him different from the normal boring Goku lead.

uhmm.. aren't you putting your foot in your mouth with that statement?? Isn't Ichigo exactly like the boring goku lead? that's why i called out the hypocrisy in him struggling so much.
1.A lot of reiatsu?--> high power level? check
2.shikai, bankai?--->SSJ, SSJ2? check
3.vizard--->SSJ4? check.
ignore the sarcasm, but don't you think its kinda ridiculous?

We've all watch the vizards, and Ichigo arguably has way more reiatsu then all of them. but if i remember correctly, shinji fought grimjaw with only his mask on with no shikai or bankai.

^ You have a point there. The arrancar have been kind of inconsistent power-wise. Ikkaku had to use his bankai to kill a fraccion yet Rukia managed to kill an Espada with a broken shikai.

When it comes to fights involving main characters I suspend my disbelief since I know that their main purpose is to drive the story.
I agree with you on Ichigo getting too strong too fast, but at least it hasn't gotten to ridiculous DBZ levels where there's a dozen characters who can destoy a planet single-handedly.

I think because things got so rushed power-wise that Kubo thought "shit, now I have to think of ways to weaken Ichigo".

I just like to think Ichigo is sort of stupid, lacks experience, whatever, and he poorly manages his reiatsu. He is after all 15 years old or at least he's supposed to be... So there's the whole being a teenager deal. THAT'S the reason! Puberty!

Fluctuating hormones + shinigami powers = fluctuating shinigami powers! And I'm not even factoring in the whole 'having an inner hollow' part.

Those few times that Ichigo goes badass and fights like mad are when he reins in his inner turmoil and let's the testosterone flow!

...

No I wasn't serious.

Also on the current chapter, does this mean Hisagi has a dual-zanpakuto? Sure they're connected by a chain, but so is Ukitake's... Or is there a different meaning to having a pair of zanpakuto? I'm thinking it has something to do with the zanpakuto spirit. Like even though Hisagi's zanpakuto is two-weaponed, the zanpakuto itself only has one spirit. While Ukitake and Shunsei's zanpakuto have two spirits.

First off to xxDoLLarBiLLxx, I see your point. However, you do have to realize Ichigo has only about a year (maybe a year and a half at the most) of actuall Hollow fighting experiance. All the others have many more years and dedicated training to fight them.

This is actually why I've been likeing these fights, the "weaker" ones have been showing stratigies in order to win as well as useing all thier abilities, not just fighting (which is what we've seen the fraccion do). As far as some of the inconsistancies, well they are common in weekly mangas.

Now as far as the dual zanpakuto goes, I thought that it looked more like a flail like weapon (haft, chain, heavy end to hit opponent with) than anything else. Although if I'm right, I do like the look of the head.

Originally Posted by Sidharthavicious

^ You have a point there. The arrancar have been kind of inconsistent power-wise. Ikkaku had to use his bankai to kill a fraccion yet Rukia managed to kill an Espada with a broken shikai.

When it comes to fights involving main characters I suspend my disbelief since I know that their main purpose is to drive the story.
I agree with you on Ichigo getting too strong too fast, but at least it hasn't gotten to ridiculous DBZ levels where there's a dozen characters who can destoy a planet single-handedly.

I think because things got so rushed power-wise that Kubo thought "shit, now I have to think of ways to weaken Ichigo".

I completely agree. Dollar was absolutely right when he pointed out the huge power disparity in the relative strengths of the weak arrancar to the shinigami who fought them in Karakura during Grimmjaw's initial attack and the relative strengths between lieutenants and espada who are supposedly several steps up in the skills and rankings. Sure, seeing a weaker shinigami win using strategy is interesting, but that possibility of winning with brains alone disappear once you have a large enough power disparity. Besides, the arrancar we've seen these lieutenants face so far have been stupid. That's ridiculus.
I remember how Hitsugaya was being totally read by his opponent during the initial Grimmjaw skirmish (by Zaeropollo's brother? I forget who, the guy with a bull release). Yet we just saw a couple of underlings of about the same rank die due to plain stupidity. And, they released before their shinigami counterparts did. That's just plain plot shield, just like Ichigo's unreasonable recent powerup and the more equal Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight that's inevitably coming.

Originally Posted by ranteil

First off to xxDoLLarBiLLxx, I see your point. However, you do have to realize Ichigo has only about a year (maybe a year and a half at the most) of actuall Hollow fighting experiance. All the others have many more years and dedicated training to fight them.

This is actually why I've been likeing these fights, the "weaker" ones have been showing stratigies in order to win as well as useing all thier abilities, not just fighting (which is what we've seen the fraccion do). As far as some of the inconsistancies, well they are common in weekly mangas.

Don't feel like reiterating my response, so I'll just recopy the section that applies from above:
Sure, seeing a weaker shinigami win using strategy is interesting, but that possibility of winning with brains alone disappear once you have a large enough power disparity. Besides, the arrancar we've seen these lieutenants face so far have been stupid. That's ridiculus.
I remember how Hitsugaya was being totally read by his opponent during the initial Grimmjaw skirmish (by Zaeropollo's brother? I forget who, the guy with a bull release). Yet we just saw a couple of underlings of about the same rank die due to plain stupidity. And, they released before their shinigami counterparts did. That's just plain plot shield, just like Ichigo's unreasonable recent powerup and the more equal Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight that's inevitably coming.

Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama

I completely agree. Dollar was absolutely right when he pointed out the huge power disparity in the relative strengths of the weak arrancar to the shinigami who fought them in Karakura during Grimmjaw's initial attack and the relative strengths between lieutenants and espada who are supposedly several steps up in the skills and rankings. Sure, seeing a weaker shinigami win using strategy is interesting, but that possibility of winning with brains alone disappear once you have a large enough power disparity. Besides, the arrancar we've seen these lieutenants face so far have been stupid. That's ridiculus.

Yes, we've seen stupidity, like the guy Kira just fought. If he had stayed in the air and not went down for hand to hand combat, he would have lived. However, Kira had a distinct advantage against him, which by making his steel feathers heavier there's no way he can stand or fight back. The same could be said by Yumichika, who's release owns physical based damages by just stealing reiatsu and eating it back.

It's a combination or advantage, strategy, and stupidity, not stupidity alone.

I remember how Hitsugaya was being totally read by his opponent during the initial Grimmjaw skirmish (by Zaeropollo's brother? I forget who, the guy with a bull release).

I wonder are you even reading the same manga?

1) Hitsugaya fought Shawlong Qu Fong
2) Il Forte, the Bull guy, fought Renji
3) Shawlong only read that his Bankai was incomplete, but did not even take into account that his opponent was leveled down. Thus he died in one attack right after.

Yet we just saw a couple of underlings of about the same rank die due to plain stupidity. And, they released before their shinigami counterparts did. That's just plain plot shield, just like Ichigo's unreasonable recent powerup and the more equal Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight that's inevitably coming.

The thing is, not all of the arrancar are or generic power levels. Some are weaker, some are very weaker, and some are a little stronger than the others.

As for the Ichigo thing, yes, it's sad but that's a plot device. He HAS to win being the main character, and as of yet, no explanation of why Ulquiorra needs to use his sword has been giving.


As for the actual chapters, these are "filler chapters," because Kubo is thinking of the main fights we will get to see. So, get used to them, because we still have Ikkaku left to see, so that's at least two weeks.

I assume Ulquiorra is using his sword because he wants to quickly own Ichigo... and I also hope Grimmjow is dead, as cool as he is, it'd just be lame and pointless for him to still be alive.

the dispaing power levels does seem a tad odd

Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx

Look, I'm not talking about Ichigo's fights agains the upper level espadas. I'm talking about his fights against the lower level arrancars when he went to hueco Mundo. heck even his fight against the upper level espadas was kinda troubling, because depending on Ichigo's power level, he shouldn't have struggled with them that much or be beaten that badly. THink about it, Ichigo has a shikai, a bankai and a vizard mask. those vice captains, have shikai and no bankai(at least not shown yet).
Name me one lower level arrancar that Ichigo has beaten with his shikai??

I understand i'm complaining but all i'm asking myself is why do these mangakas so badly pace things when it comes to power levels? So all that talk about Ichigo being monster strong was just poetry? or does he feel that he gave Ichigo too much power too soon? If that's the answer, why does he keep on making him look weak even after going bankai with a mask on?

To be fair the vice captains have a hell of a lot more fighting experience, as well as heightened abilities to manipulate and control their reiatsu, coupled with knowing their zanpakuto well and being able to fight as a genuine double act, as two individuals synchronising and helping each other.

As for ichigo's abilities, one of the constant themes in this manga isn't that he's genuinely a terribly powerful character - rather that his growth rate and potential to rise above his weaknesses are what make him the power that he is. True, it is nontheless a broken character, but there is at least a degree of logic other than ''ROAR I PWN'' to ichigo.

Originally Posted by Rumina Asagi

To be fair the vice captains have a hell of a lot more fighting experience, as well as heightened abilities to manipulate and control their reiatsu, coupled with knowing their zanpakuto well and being able to fight as a genuine double act, as two individuals synchronising and helping each other.

As for ichigo's abilities, one of the constant themes in this manga isn't that he's genuinely a terribly powerful character - rather that his growth rate and potential to rise above his weaknesses are what make him the power that he is. True, it is nontheless a broken character, but there is at least a degree of logic other than ''ROAR I PWN'' to ichigo.

you do realize the hypocrisy in your statements right? These are the same vice captains that Ichigo beat easily, some he didn't even use his Zampaktou to dispatch them(and those had more experience than him).

and two, ichigo is exactly the character you portray. What weakness does Ichigo has? he has a monster reiatsu, even high amongst captains, his father who's a captain level shinigami said himself that his reiatsu couldn't compare to Ichigo's. He has a bankai that is supposed to make him fast, yet anybody now can keep up with him and are as fast as him when using Shunpo. He has a broken the barrier between Shinigami and Hollow which further enhance his power.

And If logic was included then he should be pwning people right now.