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  1. #51
    3955elits is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Oct 2006
    sumWhere in iNdOnEsia


    My point, Hitsugaya still lacks as a captain. and he sucks.
    you're going to be chased by all of hitsugaya-fans out there...he's one of the most popular character in bleach...
    and also your description about each captain's strength a bit off,
    first:unohana-she's the best HEALER as she's the leader of division 4,a division full of healer,I don't know if her bankai is intimidating but I think it's been described that her bankai can heal any injuries by eating the person.(the flying manta ray).I don't know why but as far as I know her bankai has no ability to hurt or even kill.
    kisuke - he's strong,in other way,not in his battle skill but his intelligent,if you see the fight between him and the espada before inoue kidnapped, you know that he's freaking smart(he can deflect cero for heaven's sake!!!) and his zanpakuto nothing to be laughed at.
    byakuya-wrong,ichigo won because of the hollow,ever since their first fight in soul society,he admitted that ichigo is growing stronger and I doubt that he didn't see ichigo blocked that huge phoenix with his shikai.he even used his ultimate technique after both of them are seriously injured.
    inoue-weak???are you out of your mind?she's a goddess!!!how can you recover something that's not even there and burned to ashes?he recover it just like healing normal wound.

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  2. #52
    _zet_ is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Jul 2006
    flin flon, manitoba


    Nobody knows if thats her bankai or not, she just calls it minatsuki, which is the name of her sword. And nobody in the manga describes her "bankai" either. And the fourth squad isn't just healers, If you've read the manga at any depth. The fourth squad are still fully battle ready shinigami, But they Are also skilled in healing arts. It mentions it several times, and being captain means she can't be too weak, expecially being able to heal herself in battle would be a major advantage.

    And your corrections don't really affect what i was talking about.
    I agree with the part on kisuke, thats exactly what i said, he's a strong captain level, and he uses crazy techniques with his "Blood mist" shield/wave as well using his expierience from the research squad, for battle modifications, and using strange expieriments in battle. so i agree with you, but his strength does not just lie in his intelligence, he's really strong in general. Probably the strongest or second strongest in the human world.

    And for how strong byakua is? the reason for his loss, doesn't matter as much as how strong he is overall. And he didn't lose to the hollow inside ichigo, it just stalled him and even'd the field between him an ichigo. And i don't know if we read the same manga, the whole time ichigo is in soul society, he refuses to accept ichigo as strong, or even a real shinigami, and he didn't even believe that his ban kai was real. Yet ichigo overcame his "pride" and byakuya admits he lost because ichigo's blade shattered his, he even phrases it as, "your liberalness has shattered my blade of pride, the victor of this battle is you"

    And inoue is battle weak, she can't do anything in a fight so far to anything stronger than a weak hollow. sure her powers are amazing, but i mentioned that, and the fact that her powers are TOO good. And if she ever gains perfect control that is liek, where the manga should end.
    "Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do."
    - Bruce lee

  3. #53
    ranteil is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Oct 2006
    Somewhere in the world...


    @ zet
    I do agree with you on some points, but here are a few things that were pointed out in the manga also:
    1) The fourth squad is the weakest attack group. Almost all of their people are usless in battle (Hanatoro's explanation to Ichigo) and therefore are used pretty roughly by everyone as support/backup, and also to give chores to. Granted Hanatoro is probably the weakest one (I wouldn't be suprised as we see other squad 4 members just give him bad jobs). The captain though, is able to garner some respect from other captains, (mabey not Ken) but probably not because of offencive tatics. If she is strong, it is going to be because of knowledge, and not of physical abilities.
    2) On the Hitsugaya front: first off, I've always liked the kid, secondly I'm going to tell you why he is a captain. He is simply strong. Most of his strength lies in his tatics and calmness, which being a kid (how old is he anyway? Same effective age as Karin?) he has yet to controle. Secondly, although we don't see it, he probably has a very good grasp of Kido, which once again needs a calm head. That was the problem with that fight. Most of you see the analisis and go "Oh, he is loosing the fight because the analisis is right, and he needs to push himself to win!" I see it as arrogance. Personally I think it's "What? You think you know me that well? You moron, I'll show you!" Look at everything he does, and most of it is simply him being arrogant like most child geniouses in anime and mangas. Once he is able to get rid of the temper, his power will sky rocket. In the meantime, I'ld say he is in the mid captans range, mostly because he had to prove himself so much to get to be a captain (possibaly the youngest ever). Also remember it takes years to master the ban-kai, and I would put Hit at about half way there.

  4. #54
    _zet_ is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Jul 2006
    flin flon, manitoba


    well the spirt age thing isn't really, a suitable comparison, We don;t know how lon ghe's been there, or how long he's been a shinigami, rukia looked like a little kid when she first appeard, and compared to now maybe 18, but she says she's several times older than ichigo. I think that the reason he's able to act mature is because of being able to spend several times longer than a normal person at growing up, he doesn't have to worry about dying again of old age.

    And Hitsugaya doesn't use any kidou except for that one barrier around hinamori correct?

    And again potential isn't the issue :P He's a captain, but hes probably the weakeast, or second weakeast of the captains. For potential, ichigo's, renji's, and ikkaku's seem far higher to me. Three idiots who never seem to train often, and i'm sure that considerig all of them only seemed to JUST recently have achieved bankai, Have far higher reaches in potential for perfecting them.
    "Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do."
    - Bruce lee

  5. #55
    _baka_ is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Oct 2005


    Renji and Ikkaku became shinigami before Hitsugaya so how would they have more potential when they have been a shinagami for a longer period of time...
    Last edited by _baka_; 01-12-2008 at 02:49 AM.
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  6. #56
    3955elits is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    sumWhere in iNdOnEsia


    Quote Originally Posted by _baka_ View Post
    Renji and Ikkaku became shinigami before Hitsugaya so how would they have more potential when they have been a shinagami for a longer period of time...
    For me,the problem is the appearance.just like baka said,renji and ikkaku became a shinigami waaayyy much longer than hitsugaya but they're just vice-captain,also tousen once also mentioned about how one can become a captain,you should have approval from the other captains first.
    three idiots who never seem to train often,
    never train often?how can you say not coming home and going to school for a whole month(ch229pg9)and maybe longer not often?the only way you can get a bankai is by training a lot or using the doll technique.

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  7. #57
    Chaoswind is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Jun 2007
    Under a rock, behind a tree, just outside the road, moving at low speed.


    Hinamory had already done most if not all the training for be a shinigami already, and that means Rukia and everyone we know haves a lot more time being a shinigami than Toushi >_>

    also I don't think Touchi is THAT old, he was found by Hinamory and the Granny some years before she started to be a Shinigami, so no he is neither old or weak, he almost had his Bankai ready way before being a shinigami (Is clearly seem how he froze the granny everyday hinamory wasn't there)

    Touchi is way above most Capitans in the mind level, he was the first one to notice that something was wrong, then it was followed by Unohana, so if we are going to rank them using all their skills he is way above most of the capitans.

    He wasn't agitated when he was fighting Arrancar 11, he almost never is, the only time he seemed to show his emotions was when Aizen half killed Hinamory, I like to think that it was a made up act in order to get enough time for release the Seal and much more important an attemt to gather information of a way too overconfident guy >_>

    Unohana is probably not that strong and probably no one in the 4 Squad is (Hanatoru is a seated officer...) but they probably make up for that with Kidou, either attacking Kidou or Support/Traps.

    Unohana is probably a smart fighter, much than we can say about Ken >_>

    In Bleach being smart is not important since we can see how this manga focuses more in power ups than better ways of use the power already gained >_>

    oh well... the only clearly strong capitans are Yamamoto and Aizen, I am not sure if Aizen is stronger than Yama, and probably he is not (He made that Plan in order to gather an army and become stronger so clearly there way a lot of people stronger than him in SS) >_>

    The rest are still unconclusive

    typo typo typo all over the place.

  8. #58
    BleachOD is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Oct 2007
    Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE


    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoswind View Post
    I am not the one that said it, Ulqui did... Ichigo is not able to use the full power of his hollow side, I bet Ichigo is using at best only 5% of H. Ichigo power and you can note that, by the fact that Ichigo as lame and stupid he is, is using the mask as a little power up at best.

    I still think Ichigo is stronger than Ulqui since Ulqui himself said it, and by the reaction of all the vizards when H. Ichigo charged at Hiyory and H. Ichigo wasn't even trying >_>

    is just that Ichigo is an idiot, is very simple
    WTF..O_o an Idiot?!
    Ulquiorra said his reiatsu "fluctuates but at times it > mine."

    The problem is...His powers are so strong, it's hard control. He has had NO TRAINING as a Shinigami. He just learned to make use of the hollow powers he inherited as a result of almost becoming a hollow (He doesn't really have a hollow...He can just manfest the powers as by-product of almost becoming one)

    So he is just winging it and still kicking ass! He gave (Not awakened but gave) powers to not one but TWO people. (No character in BLEACH has ever achieved that...) BEFORE THE DAMN HOLLOW! Why does he get the credit for Ichigo's strength when it's Ichigo's strength that allowed him to get it?!

    This is boggles my mind! If he is that kick ass in a few seconds...

    Personally I think he is already strong as Aizen is reputed to be. He just can't control it, yet. And he is progressing at an okay pace...

    He doesn't have a bunch of uber hax abilities. Which it makes it more exciting to see him pull out a win. I don't know how anyone could think he is weak or his hollow makes him..when it's the other way around (He was born from Ichigo)

    This is images and translations taken from the Databook aka Book of Souls

    It is the stats for for each captain and the results may surprise you.















    攻撃力 = Offense Power
    防御力 = Defense Power
    機動力 = Mobility
    鬼道・霊圧 = Demon Arts / Soul Pressure (specifically control)
    知力 = Intelligence
    体力 = Body Power

    1.) Yamamoto-------560 & Aizen-560
    2.) Unohana---------540
    3.) Kyoraku----------530
    4.) Byakuya----------510
    5.) Hitsugaya--------500
    6.) Ukitake-----------490
    7.) Gin----------------480
    8.) Komamura-------470
    9.) soifong-----------460 & Tosen-460

    Here's a different way to measure their power since this serious is dominated by zanjutsu:"]Ranked by Combat Power (Offense/Defense/Mobility)

    1. Yamamoto - 100
    2. Aizen - 93.3
    3. Shunsui - 90
    4. Byakuya - 86.6
    5. Unohana - 83.3
    5. Hitsugaya - 83.3
    5. Ukitake - 83.3
    8. Komamura - 80
    8. Kenpachi - 80
    8.Gin - 80
    8.Soi Fong - 80
    12.Tosen - 73.3
    13.Mayuri – 60

    this is the sum of the squares of their stats divided by 100"

    yamamoto: 536

    soi fong: 372

    gin: 384

    unohana: 494

    aizen: 526

    byakuya: 437

    komamura: 405

    kyoraku: 473

    tosen: 360

    hitsugaya: 418

    kenpachi: 325

    mayuri: 339

    ukitake: 427

    and this is the square root of their sums doubled then divided by a random variable number, followed by the application of Leonhard Euler's infinite solution:

    Yamamoto: 1

    soi fong: 10

    gin: 9

    unohana: 3

    aizen: 2

    byakuya: 5

    komamura: 8

    kyoraku: 4

    tosen: 11

    hitsugaya: 6

    kenpachi: 13

    mayuri: 12

    ukitake: 6

    YAMAMOTO Genryusai Shigekuni
    京紫(Kyo-Murasaki/Kyoto purple):

    Soi Fon
    琥珀色(Kohaku-iro/Color of amber):

    白殺し=藍白(Shiro-goroshi = Aijiro/White suppress = Indigo-white):

    UNOHANA Retsu
    灰桜(haizakura/Ash and Cherry blossoms):

    AIZEN Sosuke

    KUCHIKI Byakuya
    青藍(Seiran/Indigo blue):

    KOMAMURA Sajin
    璃寛茶(Rikancha/ARASHI Kichisaburo(Kabuki Actor)'s brown):

    KYORAKU Shunsui
    蘇芳色(Suwo-iro/Dark red (color of sappanwood)):

    TOSEN Kaname
    枯竹色(Karetake-iro/Color of dead bamboos):
    HITSUGAYA Toshiro
    千歳緑(Chitose-midori/Japanese black pine's green):

    ZARAKI Kenpachi
    滅紫(Keshi-murasaki/Subdued purple)
    Last edited by BleachOD; 01-31-2008 at 01:24 AM.


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