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  1. #21
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^ Right, and he didn't actually temporarily unseal the hōgyoku, which was supposed to be impossible, oh wait...

  2. #22
    Attila Khan is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^^ And he didn't nearly kill Sajin with a lvl 90 spell with no incantation. Oh yeah........

    he has to actually pull the sword first. And he hasn't in an un-godly amount of chapters. So trust me when I say Lucifer is damn strong and Ichigo isn't even close yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tousen View Post
    Please don't bother. Simple rule: If it wasn't in the manga, it doesn't count.

  3. #23
    elnino19 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    are you saying that there are many captains that can beat ulquiorra?
    there yama,theres kyoraku,there's mayuri(maybe) and there is unohana(imho)
    these are the only people that are gonna last it against him.am sorry,kenpachi,but if you cant release and up ur power a little bit,youre gone,because ulquiorra pulled a goku and stopped zangetsu at the most powerful it has gotten.
    as for byakuya,anyone who gets cut by ichigo's bankai is gonna lose to ulquiorra
    hell byakuya will even lose to grimjaw.
    well i agree shinji is pretty strong,but logic(and the manga-albeit in a very indirect way) states that the chances of the vizard members having bankai is low.very low.shinji is probably the only one.

  4. #24
    Attila Khan is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    You really want me to do this okay here we go.

    Yamamoto will kill Ulq with a look much less Shikai.

    Kyoraku, Ukitake, and Unohana, are all far ahead of him.

    In Unohana's case she isn't as far ahead as the other two, but with bankai he is one dead German Espada.

    Now the sons of twin swords are so high up he would never try and fight them. But should he ever have the lack of common sense to step on the field with either of them, their Shikai would clearly be too much, If they can survive with Shikai alone against, the Arc Angel Micheal......err Yamamoto, then imagine what one of them would do to him.

    Also I think you underestimate Byakuya. And believe me I don't like saying that. I've never been a Shinigami Neji fan.(Tousen FTW!!) But clearly he can stand toe to toe with Ulq. Not only did he suffer from Hadou 101: Grand Plot hole. But he was mismatched style wise with Ichigo, and he under estimated his abilities. That's 5 captains there and I'm not going to get into the argument of Zaraki fighting anyone up to Grimmjaw. Because that would just be some murder on a stick.

    Now the Vizards. While yes you would probably be right to say that all of them having bankai is downright impossible.

    However Shinji, the girl, and possibly little miss 15 hours in the mask the first time, are probably the only ones, unless Starfro is included. But clearly if Shinji had been doing anything but trying to quickly help get Ichigo out of the fight Grimm might not be here. I doubt he is anywhere near as weak as you say. So him beating Ulq is a dead on match. Either Shinji would beat him like Ichigo did Byakuya, or he would have one of those Rukia style fights, where he wins but he is dying so he will need major healing.

    I think you over estimate Ulq because of how he fights, and how Ichigo had been fighting. he isn't so bad ass that Ichigo would auto lose and neither would the caps.
    Last edited by Attila Khan; 07-16-2007 at 02:40 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tousen View Post
    Please don't bother. Simple rule: If it wasn't in the manga, it doesn't count.

  5. #25
    Feanor is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I think it depends on what Kubo wants to do.
    If there will be a big all out war in the end where the humans and Shinigami (I couldn't care less about the vaizards) will get to fight one on one, there will be enough people capable of defeating strong espadas.

    Because you can't introduce stronger and stronger enemies without giving the good side more strenght too (even if bankai is supposed to be the best attack for shinigami).
    Not only Ichigo, Chad and Ishida are getting stronger. The Shinigami side is also. Just look at Renji. If he get's stronger, why not all the other Shinigami?
    Again, the statement that Bankai is the highest attack doesn't mean that they won't get stronger.

    You can't introduce something like the strenght of the best espada or the vastrolords and not give powerups to the good side.
    Not if Kubo plans to let more than Ichigo and a few others fight against them.


    The fact is that we don't know. We don't know what Kubo plans to do and we don't know what happened to many characters.
    As long as we don't know it's wrong to base the outcome of a fight between Byakuya and Ulqi, on Byakuya's fight against Ichigo. The same goes for Kenpachi.
    That was ages ago. Give them a little powerup and they can stand their own.
    And it's not like Kubo can't do that easily (even if Bankai is supposed to be the highest attack) . Just look what he is doing with the humans.



    I'd prefer if he did that.
    Because I'd rather watch Ichigo, Ishida (plus dads), urahara, Yoruichi, chad fight the end battle at the side of shinigamis like kenpachi, byakuya, yamamoto, soi fon, renji etc.
    To me all those Shinigami are much more interesting than most Vizards. They've been around for a long time and we know them better.
    Kubo did a better job on them.
    The Vizards are strong, okay. But there isn't really much to know about them.
    Most of the have almost no character depth.
    "For Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike, of all the Children of Illuvatar, and a bright flame was in him"

  6. #26
    xxsaznpride is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    They don't have any character depth because they haven't been given proverbial shovels to dig with (appearances, I guess they would be).

    Attila (and the guy he was arguing with), you can't say Ulq is better or worse than anyone. We don't know if the people you're talking about have been powered up since the time that we saw them back in Soul Society. Based on how Ichigo did against Byakuya, though, I'd say Ulquiolla is stronger than him unless the sister-killer has gotten a LOT stronger. Be realistic. Wichigo (cool name for Hollow Ichigo) destroyed Byakuya. Ulquiolla destroyed Ichigo who had Wichi power. Unless it's possible to get 3x stronger in such a short amount of time without doing anything overly brilliant (like becoming a Vizard), Ulq is going to be stronger than at least Byakuya.

    Unless Yamamoto's reiatsu is so high that his shikai would rip through Ulq, he'd have to Ban Kai to win.

    And how do you know Ukitake, Shunsui, and Unohana are that much stronger than him. Wtf are you smoking? Unohana? Yes, I'll agree even though we've never EVER seen her do anything except scare some pussy no-numbers. As for the nitouryuu duo, I'd say they'd HAVE to be about even with Ulquiolla, if not slightly higher or slightly lower (with shikai) unless they managed to get Ban Kai with Urahara's method. With Ban Kai, I'll go with you on 2-sworders > Ulq... easy.

    But that's just based on him being normal. I'd have no clue in hell where everyone would compare if such a big Ichi-pwner released.
    ~~

    Shinji with his mask is probably about equal to a released Grimjaw. Shinji + Mask + released sword... is probably about equal to a released Grimjaw...

    ripped into enough pieces to make Bleach's rating Adults only. Ulquiolla probably sensed that (because he's so badass) and didn't want Grimjaw to get raped to fast and early.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarST
    And your name's annoying to type; from now on you're sazny.
    Farleen // Number 42

  7. #27
    hotaruofmibu is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Shinji with his mask is probably about equal to a released Grimjaw. Shinji + Mask + released sword... is probably about equal to a released Grimjaw...
    .....What?

  8. #28
    JZBaltazar is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Read the entire sentence. xxsaznpride meant that with a released sword masked Shinji would easily pawn released Grimmjaw.

  9. #29
    mr_zoot is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Hah, lol, Ill trust myself, thanks

  10. #30
    Attila Khan is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxsaznpride View Post
    They don't have any character depth because they haven't been given proverbial shovels to dig with (appearances, I guess they would be).

    Attila (and the guy he was arguing with), you can't say Ulq is better or worse than anyone. We don't know if the people you're talking about have been powered up since the time that we saw them back in Soul Society. Based on how Ichigo did against Byakuya, though, I'd say Ulquiolla is stronger than him unless the sister-killer has gotten a LOT stronger. Be realistic. Wichigo (cool name for Hollow Ichigo) destroyed Byakuya. Ulquiolla destroyed Ichigo who had Wichi power. Unless it's possible to get 3x stronger in such a short amount of time without doing anything overly brilliant (like becoming a Vizard), Ulq is going to be stronger than at least Byakuya.

    Unless Yamamoto's reiatsu is so high that his shikai would rip through Ulq, he'd have to Ban Kai to win.

    And how do you know Ukitake, Shunsui, and Unohana are that much stronger than him. Wtf are you smoking? Unohana? Yes, I'll agree even though we've never EVER seen her do anything except scare some pussy no-numbers. As for the nitouryuu duo, I'd say they'd HAVE to be about even with Ulquiolla, if not slightly higher or slightly lower (with shikai) unless they managed to get Ban Kai with Urahara's method. With Ban Kai, I'll go with you on 2-sworders > Ulq... easy.

    But that's just based on him being normal. I'd have no clue in hell where everyone would compare if such a big Ichi-pwner released.
    ~~

    Shinji with his mask is probably about equal to a released Grimjaw. Shinji + Mask + released sword... is probably about equal to a released Grimjaw...

    ripped into enough pieces to make Bleach's rating Adults only. Ulquiolla probably sensed that (because he's so badass) and didn't want Grimjaw to get raped to fast and early.
    You might want to check the weed you've been smoking for angel dust man, Ukitake and Kyoraku have bankai, as you cannot be a cap without it unless your Zaraki. And yes Yamamoto's reiatsu is so high before Shikai that it would rip through Ulq. Lucifer(Aizen) is afraid to fight him. As far as the Yamamoto's "sons" they are the only characters shown that have been able to keep up with him and not die. Kyoraku's vice nearly died by Yamamoto looking at her. And news flash, they've been caps longer than Urahara has been dead.

    And as far as Unohana, she could have easily been killed by Lucifer, but he didn't fight her as it would have taken too much time, and he couldn't afford to get in a fiht with a captain you clearly chooses not to be a big time fighter.

    Now Wichigo, yes the actual manifestation of Ichigo's hollow was busy slaking his rage in Byakuya's blood to stop and let Ichigo win, but that is not the same as when Ulq put Ichigo in his place. That was Ichigo how wasn't fully integrated into his powers(hence the 11 seconds limit) trying to fight beyond his ability. Now that would not be the case. Where as Byakuya, who spent the first half of the fight toying with Ichigo, and being surprised at his development.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tousen View Post
    Please don't bother. Simple rule: If it wasn't in the manga, it doesn't count.

 

 
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