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  1. #11
    ghost305 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok_moogle View Post
    but they wouldn't be an economic power if they did have an army. they put all their money in technology instead of putting it into an army. i doubt they could of recouped their lossess without the help of the us.
    They'd still be economic power with an army. Check this out:
    military expenditures:
    1.USA : 478.2 billion (3.7% of GDP)
    2.United Kingdom: 48.3 billion (2.2% of GDP)
    3.France: 46.2 billion (2.6% of GDP)
    4.Japan: 42.1 billion (1% of GDP)
    5.People's republic of China: 41 billion (1.4% of GDP)
    The Europenion Union's is 216.9 billion, it is not ranked because its not officially a state
    ================================================== =
    Although its not as grave but you can compare Jpan's WWII loss'affect is the same as the effect the Vietnam war's loss has on us. Will it hurt Jpan in the long run?? yes because China who's right next to them is enlarging their army. They can't keep relying on the US for protection forever.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    ALmost every mangaka try bring the japanese conservatism into their work almost as some kind of protest against it.


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  2. #12
    Crazytype is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost305 View Post
    And it's not the first time you see a mangaka or an anime director do this. I think its somewhat a Propaganda but the people don't seem to care.
    Do you even know what propaganda is?

  3. #13
    JuicySpeed is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropthesky View Post
    its better that they don't ^^. Armies suck. But without getting into a conversation about how bleach relates to moedern geopolitics. I would say the only conservative people in all of Bleach are Byakuya, Fox Head, Tousen, ol' Yama. Hardly enough to constitute the nation of Japan.
    shitz my bw comrade sup noobie ^_^

  4. #14
    Shrikoneoki is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost305 View Post
    Hey you are talking about a Country that didn't even write its own Constitution. It was written by another Country(american drafted). It's been 51 years and they still haven't change it nor rewrite it. The American army is practically their army, they didn't even have anti-missile protections, they had to borrow one from the US army after the whole North Korea test.

    I for myself think its really weird for a country with the 2nd biggest Economy in the World to not have an army and be content to live the way it was setup by the us after WWII.

    So you can say that Japan's Conservatism is an after-effect of losing in WWII.
    Eh... Actually to put it bluntly it is too harsh to say they didnt write their own constitution. But frankly speaking they are under a different set of RULING rather than a Democracy.
    Second Point, Japanese constitution had been modified from time to time but no major drastic changes(Basis of democratic society see note: Government Study)
    Third - JAPAN ARE NOT ALLOWED to HAVE AN ARMY UNDER United States Ruling. Thus if they cant have an army they have to use the US one since the US Prohibited them to have one it is obvious that the responsability to protect japan lays in the Hand of the United States.
    (PS-They have National Military Not MAJOR ARMY to wage war. Since WWII)
    Fourth- They became the 2nd Largest Economy due to the fact that they dont spent money on military, thus their Input focus totally on the CIVILIAN spending and Educational system. (Principle of Macro Economy and Micro economy) back by Economist analysis. (it's not Until the 21th century that the japanese start increase in Spending On Military due to Worldwide conflict)
    In term of education (US is in total failure) from elementry to high school. Look-up Education in US to back it up, government trying to save an arleady failing system of education by putting funding into a failing system, that system will not die and because it wont die it end up bad.
    Last edited by Shrikoneoki; 12-30-2006 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Amplification

  5. #15
    ghost305 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrikoneoki View Post
    Eh... Actually to put it bluntly it is too harsh to say they didnt write their own constitution. But frankly speaking they are under a different set of RULING rather than a Democracy.
    Second Point, Japanese constitution had been modified from time to time but no major drastic changes(Basis of democratic society see note: Government Study)
    Third - JAPAN ARE NOT ALLOWED to HAVE AN ARMY UNDER United States Ruling. Thus if they cant have an army they have to use the US one since the US Prohibited them to have one it is obvious that the responsability to protect japan lays in the Hand of the United States.
    (PS-They have National Military Not MAJOR ARMY to wage war. Since WWII)
    Fourth- They became the 2nd Largest Economy due to the fact that they dont spent money on military, thus their Input focus totally on the CIVILIAN spending and Educational system. (Principle of Macro Economy and Micro economy) back by Economist analysis. (it's not Until the 21th century that the japanese start increase in Spending On Military due to Worldwide conflict)
    In term of education (US is in total failure) from elementry to high school. Look-up Education in US to back it up, government trying to save an arleady failing system of education by putting funding into a failing system, that system will not die and because it wont die it end up bad.
    Did you see the Numbers on Military expenditures i Posted up at the top of Page 2. Japan is 4th on Milatary expenditures spending 42.1 billions, about 6 billions less than UK who's a military superpower, 4 billions less than France who's also a military power, and more than China. All those countries are Military superpowers with Nuclear power except Jpan.
    So The concept that their enocomy is 2nd because they have no military is out the window.


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  6. #16
    Shrikoneoki is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost305 View Post
    Did you see the Numbers on Military expenditures i Posted up at the top of Page 2. Japan is 4th on Milatary expenditures spending 42.1 billions, about 6 billions less than UK who's a military superpower, 4 billions less than France who's also a military power, and more than China. All those countries are Military superpowers with Nuclear power except Jpan.
    So The concept that their enocomy is 2nd because they have no military is out the window.
    Not quite Necesary. Japan Didn't start Right away spending on military after the war. Which meant that They only spent most part for almost half a century in reconstruction and etc. Their Military spending focus most on technological inovation in order to sell it for big buck. They became the 2nd in world class economy due to the fact that they Rebuilt faster than the rest of the countries and avoided war for the most part ^^ and also they spending Quite JUMP UP during the recent year starting from 1990 and the gulf war and the recent middle east conflict along with the North Korea Nuclear threat. You can see the clear connection between that.
    Last edited by Shrikoneoki; 12-30-2006 at 01:36 PM. Reason: More INFO

  7. #17
    animalia is offline Senior Member Regular
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    I wasn't just refering to the military when I was talking about conservatism, I meant more along the lines of social policy.

  8. #18
    MagoKui Heir is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Let me get this straight...You're trying to analyze and understand the actions and feelings of a guy who is a Nobleman and a Captain?

    Put yourself in his shoes. You're in a high position and society looks towards you and the other 3 noble houses. You uphold society as an example. Did it not occur to you that if he DID save rukia that would be ... hypocritical? Its not as simple a situation as most would think. Ichigo might seem liberal because he's not binded by anything really. The only weight he has on his shoulders is to make sure the folks he wants to survive actually survive.

    Byakuya, on the other hand, is somewhat involved in politics and is in the public eye. Usually, when someone in a high/special position gives his kin/close friends "pardons", its seen as unfair. Yeah, you've got the connection, great for you, but its still unfair. Byakuya's sword was defeated because he WANTED to save his sister but was at odds with his public image and himself being hypocritical towards society rules. Ichigo had an unshifiting resolve under one focused goal: save rukia. When both are pretty much equally strong, the more focused, more set in his decision will win. Possibly, byakuya WANTED rukia saved and that added to it. Who the hell knows...


    But i dont see Byakuya as conservative. Any one commoner can say "I would save my sister" but essentially your holding yourself and those attached to you apart from the law. Somehow this conversation got into discussing economies and real history, and i just dont feel like doing that. I took the time to click the link based on the first post and thats what im replying to pretty much.


    Help me out, maybe im not understanding conservatism too well, but I really dont see it in Bleach.

  9. #19
    animalia is offline Senior Member Regular
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    That was just one example. Another related one would be the fact that it was against the law for him to marry Hisana in the first place. or that Rukia had to woory about being EXECUTED, in PART, because she gave her powers to Ichigo, and gave him the ability to save his family. I mean, come on now, who were they hurting?!?! This type of biased laws reminds me of the Jim Crow laws of thePre-1960's Southern US.

  10. #20
    keitachan2006 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    How are you defining conservativism? I mean some of the stuff they show on tv is way beyond what would be considered wild and kinky.
    They might be conservative is some areas but not in others.
    Overall, I would say Japan is just like anywhere else. - full of hypocrisy and contradictions. Just about what you would expect of any human society.

 

 
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