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  1. #1
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Default What IS a Shinigami?

    just wondering what everyones theory is since this topic is strewn throughout at least four or five threads here. I personally am led to believe that a shingami is a a (usually dead) plus-type soul that posesses higher than average spirit power and has undergone training at the Spirit Academy to become a soul reaper. Shingami can also be made by one current shingami transferring her power to another soul of high enough reiatsu. if this souls body is still alive then special items are needed to remove its soul from its body (The Soul Glove, Uraharas Cane, The Emblem of Soul Society). its been said that shinigami souls cannot produce children unless they are of the four noble houses (Shinuin, Kuchiki, Shiba(formerly), ????, ????) i interpret this to mean that shingami cannot be born but rather that noble families have almost a 100 percent chance of birthing a child with high enough reiatsu that it would always become a shinigami thus factualizing the statement that noble families are the only ones that give birth to shinigamis. on the subject of whether Isshin is a noble i dont think he is, but i think because of his power as a captain class shingami he and his wife had children which had the spirit capacity equal to that of a shinigami. i wont rule out the possibility of the Kurosaki name being one of the noble families but i refuse to jump to conclusions that are so... convenient for this change.


    ...discuss.


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  2. #2
    Aznhuskarl is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Default re:What IS a Shinigami?

    What IS a Shinigami?
    Shinigami is a Death God/Soul Reaper. They are not dead but they are one type of agent regulating Death. It's a different type of person (like any human being) with a different soul and body from a different world.
    Since they have a different soul, you will have different physical and psychic abilities in a different world. These people are able to train and acquire those powers with the spirit particles.

    However, it doesn't mean that those people cannot reproduce or live like human beings in the real world. Those people come from Soul Society, so it's a different environment and different lifestyle and culture that would apply to them.

    its been said that shinigami souls cannot produce children unless they are of the four noble houses (Shinuin, Kuchiki, Shiba(formerly), ????, ????) i interpret this to mean that shingami cannot be born but rather that noble families have almost a 100 percent chance of birthing a child with high enough reiatsu that it would always become a shinigami thus factualizing the statement that noble families are the only ones that give birth to shinigamis

    Well there's no solid proof on that right now. Isshin gave birth to 3 children. Rukia, Renji, Tousen, Soi Fon, Kaien and all those people were born and live in Soul Society before they were ranked as Shinigami.
    It doesn't mean they cannot reproduce once they joined in that organization and acquired their new power.
    The Noble family rule is a stereotypical old cultural rule of culture purity. The top great families are the only ones with the pure blood and culture of the society {in other words, they have the culture and the others don't.}
    It may be possible that Soul Society follows that code or mentality but in reality, anybody can acquire and follow a new culture and you do not have to be 100% pure.



    One of the confusion comes up with the contact of the modern real world. The real world does not have the same environment as Soul Society. It does not have the spirit particles, the same people and climate to adapt all Shinigamis and other civilian from Soul Society.
    The other opposite works out too; human have no skills or abilities to see, to use and to feel the spirit particles from another soul. Those Shinigamis have a different soul that cannot interact well with normal humans. The human cannot see and notice them. Those shinigamis cannot use all their normal abilities in the modern real such as:
    Making non-physical contact with human
    Reproduction
    Cannot be seen
    Cannot use all the inner power (aka reiatsu)
    etc.
    Both of them are genetically different and will be restricted naturally unless there's a physical external factor that make them change and interact each other.

    In order to adapt in the real world, those Shinigamis need to rely on catalyst items to make/use/change their soul and body to adapt in the new environment. Then that's where Uraharas technology comes out {his cane, his pills, the glove, and other devices.}

    From those explantions, you can see there's no relation with the great familiies of the Shinigami that allows to reproduce themselves. Isshin doesn't seem to be part of any great family {if he does, then some of the elder shinigamis and captains should have recognized Ichigo's last name and treated him differently. But that's not the case, nobody knew him nor his family except for Urahara.}
    Isshin himself is a straight example that he lives as a normal marrried father. He degraded his powers but he is still a Shinigami who can copulate.


    In conclusion, Shinigamis are different people trained with super special powers. They are no different from human beings but they live in another world.
    Aznhuskarl aka 20Cent

  3. #3
    MagoKui is offline Senior Member Regular
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    You took the words right out of my head STEAL DRAGON. I'm going to go a little further and speak on what a zanpakutou is.

    It seems to me that you aren't born a shinigami but a certain amount of spirit power is needed to become one. Studying to become a shinigami most likely entails developing a zanpakutou spirit within you and having its sword materialize. With the zanpakutou spirits...who knows...they could either be developed from within OR they everyone could be given like some sort of empty zanpkutou spirit pill that grew and matured according to the owner OR elaborating on the last statement: they could be an advanced form of a mod soul. Speculation of course.

    We've seen Ichigo bring a zanpakutou out from within without being given one so i guess its safe to say that all shinigamis-in-training materialize one at some point. [also i guess the clothes materialize too]

    ---
    Kubo tite could answer alot of questions by doing some sort of story on the FIRST shinigami...

    but i think shinigami are individuals who have developed additional beings within them in battle. But now the question pops up...does the shinigami make the zanpakutou...or does the zanpakutou make the shinigami... ie: is a shinigami's high potential push the zanpakutou spirit to another level or does the zanpakutou spirit push the shinigami by teaching the owner how to use its z. spirit?

    This all adds up to what a shinigami is, so plz dont think im thread-jackin.
    Last edited by MagoKui; 12-06-2006 at 12:07 PM. Reason: somehow guy posted before mine could...
    Aizen is gangsta for making everyone wear white.


    Tousen: "So what are we going to wear anyway? how do we tell each other apart from the shinigami?"
    Aizen: "I GOT IT....lets wear exactly what they wear...but make it WHITE!"
    Ichimaru: "OH SH*T, now THATS gangsta!"
    Tousen: "....even I wouldn't say that..."
    Aizen: "Loosen up Tousen...check this out...lets show him Gin!"

    Aizen/Ichimaru: "....BALLIN!!!!!...."

    Tousen: "... 0_0 ..."

  4. #4
    El Gus is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    I don't know what to think, because... well, things don't seem to add up. Here's what I mean;

    First of all, there's Ichigo. I know he's the main character, and it isn't right to judge this kind of thing on the main character... but if it wasn't the same, that'd be a huuuuuuuuge loophole. See, Ichigo... as soon as he got Rukia's 'powers', he got shinigami clothes and a sword, and she lost her shinigmai clothes. So we would assume that a shinigami is a plus that's undergone some kind of process that gives them those clothes and a zanpakuto.

    BUT.

    Then, we have to think about Kenpachi. Kenpachi had his zanpakuto before he became a shinigami. He was a NORMAL PLUS, but he happened to have a sword. We don't know when he got his shinigami clothes, but if his zanpakuto didn't 'appear' at the moment he became a shinigami, then his clothes probably didn't either.

    And now to the matter of 'Shinigamis have high levels of spirit energy.'

    See, we don't know that per se. Most of the shinigami we've seen are of a very high level, which explains why they're so strong. But consider Hanatarou; apart from his sword and clothes, he could just be a normal plus in SS. So, based on him and Kenpachi, we would assume that a shinigami is just any plus that shows up at Shinigami city and passes whatever requiredments the Shinigami Academy has for people trying to enroll. And THAT theory is again, killed by Ichigo's transformation.

    So we're back to square one.
    Why So Green And Lonely? We Are Accidents Waiting To Happen.

  5. #5
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Gus View Post
    And now to the matter of 'Shinigamis have high levels of spirit energy.'

    See, we don't know that per se. Most of the shinigami we've seen are of a very high level, which explains why they're so strong. But consider Hanatarou; apart from his sword and clothes, he could just be a normal plus in SS. So, based on him and Kenpachi, we would assume that a shinigami is just any plus that shows up at Shinigami city and passes whatever requiredments the Shinigami Academy has for people trying to enroll. And THAT theory is again, killed by Ichigo's transformation.

    So we're back to square one.
    lol.

    this begs the point of how much energy counts as alot. lets say for the sake of numbers a normal soul has a soul density of 10. Ichigos before he met rukia was say... 100. Rukias at the time was 10,000 or whatever. dead souls in SS were between 10-75. unrecruited shinigami in SS are about ... 500+; trained shinigami are 2,000+. 4th seat-Vice Captains are ~100,000.Captains are i unno... 500,000+. this is how i see it. it gives a large range for understanding how great the difference in soul strength is. sure i made up the number on the fly but its about the ratio that i think is the difference between normal dead souls (dead flower girl from the beginning), powerful living souls (Yuzu, Karin, Tatsuki), potential shinigami (kid Rukia, kid Renji, kid Kira), academy students, unseated shinigami, low seated shinigami (Hanatarou), high seated shinigami (Yumichika, Rukia, Kira etc.), Captain Class Shinigami (Kenpachi, Mayuri, Isshin, Retsu...)

    its all about how everyone compares to everyone else. hell i think any seated shinigami is powerful enough to kill a normal human being with just his/her reiatsu


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  6. #6
    MagoKui is offline Senior Member Regular
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    I would love to see Hanatarou kill a human with his reatsu alone...that would gangsta!
    Aizen is gangsta for making everyone wear white.


    Tousen: "So what are we going to wear anyway? how do we tell each other apart from the shinigami?"
    Aizen: "I GOT IT....lets wear exactly what they wear...but make it WHITE!"
    Ichimaru: "OH SH*T, now THATS gangsta!"
    Tousen: "....even I wouldn't say that..."
    Aizen: "Loosen up Tousen...check this out...lets show him Gin!"

    Aizen/Ichimaru: "....BALLIN!!!!!...."

    Tousen: "... 0_0 ..."

  7. #7
    StealDragon's Avatar
    StealDragon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Hanatarou may not be powerful compared to Retsu (his captain) but compared to any soul walking down the street he probably could easily incapacitate or kill you.... sorta like what Genryuusai did to Nanao...


    I'd like to die with the songs I love stuck in my head. I hope to make the most of these hollow bones we become.
    I raise a toast to the the souls that sang all along. I've been gathering friends to just to make some sounds,
    before the ship goes down, I've been making amends by making the rounds before the whole world ends


    [Chit Chat Specific Forum Rules] // Last Update - Friday March 13, 2009

  8. #8
    Terasiel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Hanatarou death wail!

    Actually, it would be cool to see him pull that "Soul Sucker" ability Yami had.

  9. #9
    Aznhuskarl is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Gus View Post
    I don't know what to think, because... well, things don't seem to add up. Here's what I mean;

    First of all, there's Ichigo. I know he's the main character, and it isn't right to judge this kind of thing on the main character... but if it wasn't the same, that'd be a huuuuuuuuge loophole. See, Ichigo... as soon as he got Rukia's 'powers', he got shinigami clothes and a sword, and she lost her shinigmai clothes. So we would assume that a shinigami is a plus that's undergone some kind of process that gives them those clothes and a zanpakuto.

    BUT.

    Then, we have to think about Kenpachi. Kenpachi had his zanpakuto before he became a shinigami. He was a NORMAL PLUS, but he happened to have a sword. We don't know when he got his shinigami clothes, but if his zanpakuto didn't 'appear' at the moment he became a shinigami, then his clothes probably didn't either.

    And now to the matter of 'Shinigamis have high levels of spirit energy.'

    See, we don't know that per se. Most of the shinigami we've seen are of a very high level, which explains why they're so strong. But consider Hanatarou; apart from his sword and clothes, he could just be a normal plus in SS. So, based on him and Kenpachi, we would assume that a shinigami is just any plus that shows up at Shinigami city and passes whatever requiredments the Shinigami Academy has for people trying to enroll. And THAT theory is again, killed by Ichigo's transformation.

    So we're back to square one.
    Nope. Ichigo accelerated his Shinigami subtitution due of the Crumbling Treasure {implanted on Rukia at the very beginning of the story} and from his father's genes. That process made Ighigo to gain few steps ahead to exchange his human form Shinigami traits exchange quickly and easily {by using the Crumbling treasure as a Catalyst} with Rukia's body and skill.

    If you recheck at the ending of the Soul Society Arc, Aizen was aware that Rukia had the Crumbling treasure and it was degrading itself with Rukia's lost of power once she stepped in the real world.
    So, Ichigo didn't violated any of the Shinigami training rules since he had the catalyst and the Shinigami genes already. Then Urahara and Yoroichi both helped him out to accelerate his training by using some risky techniques in order to master the release of his Zankapatou and his Bankai.


    For Kenpachi, he was a brutal guy. That's about it. Every Shinigami gets a training for physical combat and the use of their reiatsu. Most of the newbie fighters mainly use their katanas {just like Renji, Kenpachi, and everyone else before they were ranked as Captain.}
    Kenpachi was already brutally motivated to fight ruthlessly and doesn't care about the Zankapatou skills.

    We don't know when he got his shinigami clothes

    He enrolled as a Shinigami student like everyone else. Every student didn't obviously have any super natural powers before they joined in the academy.Most of the student normally acquire some combat, kidou, zankapatou skills at the end of their training. During that traning sessio, Kenpachi challenged for a fight against the 11th Captain of Gotel 13 and killed him with brute force.

    Most of the shinigami we've seen are of a very high level, which explains why they're so strong. But consider Hanatarou; apart from his sword and clothes, he could just be a normal plus in SS.

    The ones with high level are higher ranked just like in any society would do. The principle remains the same. Hanatarou has a different specialty that was ranked differently {a lower class healer.} Every person has a specialty and a different ranking in the Soul Society's system.

    Sure i made up the number on the fly but its about the ratio that i think is the difference between normal dead souls (dead flower girl from the beginning), powerful living souls (Yuzu, Karin, Tatsuki), potential shinigami (kid Rukia, kid Renji, kid Kira), academy students, unseated shinigami, low seated shinigami (Hanatarou), high seated shinigami (Yumichika, Rukia, Kira etc.), Captain Class Shinigami (Kenpachi, Mayuri, Isshin, Retsu...)

    Well, you're comparing with human beings, with strong and weaker Shinigamis from Soul society. That's not measurable nor accurate since those people don't live in the same world with the same conditions. They are people who has the chance to get that power and some don't.
    Aznhuskarl aka 20Cent

  10. #10
    dropthesky is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    You got a pretty bumpin thread here, in a short time, i'll write down my thoughts later.

 

 
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