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  1. #21
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Kaien was just a Shinigami. Vaizards and Arankaru are THEMSELVES - they discover and master the other side of themself. Ichigo's Hollow side isn't another entity - it's himself.

    Kaien was taken over by a completely separate thing; therefore, unless he became a Vaizard through some other means, he would have just been a Shinigami at time of death.

    xxDoLLarBiLLxx - I meant that you couldn't have a Vaizard/Arankaru cross because you could only be one or the other. o_o But yeah...

    We don't know if Ichigo is the reincarnation of Kaien or not. It's a theory, but it hasn't been proven for sure.
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  2. #22
    peacemakerdc is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Huh?Is the white dressed Ichigo a hollow? I though hollows have holes in their torso? So what did he surpress in that mental fight? A hollow?

  3. #23
    redsliver is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    The white dressed Ichigo is the part of Ichigo's soul that is a hollow, and remember when Ichigo made his way out of the pit Urahara dug, he had the mask but not the hole.

  4. #24
    Bleach_banta is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Had Ichigo lost to his Hollow side, he'd probably have been dead, or a Hollow. I doubt he'd be an Arankaru because the normal part of him - the Shinigami part - would probably have died.
    His human soul would have been eaten by the hollow but not his shinigami side as that is Old Man Zangetsu and he whould still live.

    As for the Vaizord/Arranacer may be posible if the hollow side took control without eating the human soul became a arranacer and then the human side took control as a shinigami.

  5. #25
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    I thought Zangetsu was the zanpakutou.... but yeah, I guess you're right.

    But a Vaizard/Arankaru is not possible - not the way you're describing it, anyway. The Hollow would have killed Ichigo's human side, and if he didn't he might be an Arankaru depending on whether Zangetsu cooperated or not. I suppose. However, if Ichigo somehow managed to fight back and regain that power - which is doubtful - he'd be a Vaizard, because the Hollow side is under his control again. He couldn't be both at once.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  6. #26
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    I thought Zangetsu was the zanpakutou.... but yeah, I guess you're right.

    But a Vaizard/Arankaru is not possible - not the way you're describing it, anyway. The Hollow would have killed Ichigo's human side, and if he didn't he might be an Arankaru depending on whether Zangetsu cooperated or not. I suppose. However, if Ichigo somehow managed to fight back and regain that power - which is doubtful - he'd be a Vaizard, because the Hollow side is under his control again. He couldn't be both at once.
    Zangetsu wouldn't have no choice but to coorperate since he and Ichigo are the same, they both could wield Zangetsu.

  7. #27
    Urahara64 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Right, whoevers dissing me, why not make some sense yourself?

    Have you considered the possibility that a Hollow killed, is reborn into another sort of Hollow, to continue the balance? Imagine if every Hollow slain was made into a Plus, the world would be in chaos. Think before you speak, idiot.

    And ive read the manga up to 224, AND ive watched the Anime right till the SS saga ends. That should be enough to know all i need to know to formulate a proper theory on Ichigo and his Hollow.

    And remember, that Hollow who took over Kaien, was a smart one, and could POSSESS people. What does Ichigo's Hollow do? Thats right, he possesses Ichigo's body, and Ichigo has to fight for control. Comparing that to Kaien's experience, theyre both too similar to give up to coincedence.

    And why else would Kaien be put into Bleach at all, other than the purpose of being Ichigo re-incarnate? Sure, maybe to reinforce Rukia's character development, but the reason he's there, is to show why Rukia can like Ichigo so much, so suddenly.

    And also, Ukitake mentions that Ichigo looks a lot like someone, and Byakuya says "No relation to the man who just flashed through your mind.". And wouldnt you think Ukitake would be so caring enough of Kaien, to always remember him, and HOPE he comes back? I can prove Ukitake cares for him a lot, he let Kaien sacrafice himself in a battle he possibly couldnt win. All to protect whats usually a huge part of a man, his pride.

    Get YOUR facts right, my friend. Before you start trying to bad-mouth others. Post count doesnt mean nothing.




  8. #28
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urahara64
    Right, whoevers dissing me, why not make some sense yourself?

    Have you considered the possibility that a Hollow killed, is reborn into another sort of Hollow, to continue the balance? Imagine if every Hollow slain was made into a Plus, the world would be in chaos. Think before you speak, idiot.

    And ive read the manga up to 224, AND ive watched the Anime right till the SS saga ends. That should be enough to know all i need to know to formulate a proper theory on Ichigo and his Hollow.

    And remember, that Hollow who took over Kaien, was a smart one, and could POSSESS people. What does Ichigo's Hollow do? Thats right, he possesses Ichigo's body, and Ichigo has to fight for control. Comparing that to Kaien's experience, theyre both too similar to give up to coincedence.

    And why else would Kaien be put into Bleach at all, other than the purpose of being Ichigo re-incarnate? Sure, maybe to reinforce Rukia's character development, but the reason he's there, is to show why Rukia can like Ichigo so much, so suddenly.

    And also, Ukitake mentions that Ichigo looks a lot like someone, and Byakuya says "No relation to the man who just flashed through your mind.". And wouldnt you think Ukitake would be so caring enough of Kaien, to always remember him, and HOPE he comes back? I can prove Ukitake cares for him a lot, he let Kaien sacrafice himself in a battle he possibly couldnt win. All to protect whats usually a huge part of a man, his pride.

    Get YOUR facts right, my friend. Before you start trying to bad-mouth others. Post count doesnt mean nothing.
    nobody's badmouthing you buddy. I was just stating a fact and i can endure speculations only when there is a spec of truth in it.

    You say that Ichigo's experience is similar to Kaein's, how's that? Kaein and the hollow were two separate beings for one, he merged with kaien but that too was a result of Aizen's experiment which he said was a failure. Ichigo and his hollow are two sides of the same coins, you cant kill one without killing the other. hollow-ichigo clearly said that he and Zangetsu are part of Ichigo's sprit.

    Ichigo's hollow was created in the shaft, where when he came out of it he was wairing a mask.

    I doubt that Ichigo is kaien's reincarnation. The only other speculation we can up with is that Isshin is part of the Shiba Clan. And that can't be dismissible since we all know that only Noble born shinigamis are born with shinigami powers.

  9. #29
    Lel
    Lel is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    It's pretty obvious that there is a connection and that connection is most likely that Ichigo = Kaien reincarnated.

    DollarBill, you're right. You can't kill one without the other. But try reading back where they show what happens. The Hollow clearly explains to Utitake how since they are two spirits, they are completely merged and they if he killed him, then Kaien would die too.

    So you're point is null.

    Besides, the connections are too obvious to miss. The rules of shounen override the rules of common sense and logic.

    1.) As stated before, there would be no point in introducing Kaien then.

    2.) Byakuya and Utitake BOTH referred to Ichigo being similar.

    3.) The resemblance is pretty much exact. This is blatant and obvious, not just a drawing coincidence like that one vice captain with the 69 on his face.

    You'd have to be BLIND to dismiss it so easily.
    I am the sig virus. Put me in your sig so that I may replicate.

  10. #30
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lel
    It's pretty obvious that there is a connection and that connection is most likely that Ichigo = Kaien reincarnated.

    DollarBill, you're right. You can't kill one without the other. But try reading back where they show what happens. The Hollow clearly explains to Utitake how since they are two spirits, they are completely merged and they if he killed him, then Kaien would die too.

    So you're point is null.

    Besides, the connections are too obvious to miss. The rules of shounen override the rules of common sense and logic.

    1.) As stated before, there would be no point in introducing Kaien then.

    2.) Byakuya and Utitake BOTH referred to Ichigo being similar.

    3.) The resemblance is pretty much exact. This is blatant and obvious, not just a drawing coincidence like that one vice captain with the 69 on his face.

    You'd have to be BLIND to dismiss it so easily.
    It seems to me you guys keep on dismissing the fact that the hollow that merged with Kaien was not part of Kaien before, he was a different spirit altogether. Where as in Ichigo's case his hollow is part of him and they are the same spirit much like a coin with two sides.

    Now you keep saying that Ichigo is Kaien reincarnate and that is the reason why he was introduced to the story, but you seem to forget if he wasn't in the story a lot of scenes and plot twist wouldn't have happened in the manga. By blatantly saying that he is kaien's reincarnate, you dismiss that Isshin might be part of the Shiba Clan, thus the ressemblance with Kaien comes into play.

 

 
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