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  1. #51
    Kid Flash is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    oh snaps...its the new gem king....prepare for a brutal raping wind king...lolz

  2. #52
    Katana Soul is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    I was talking about the very end of the fight (Flashback in chapter 142). Presumably they'd both continued for a bit after that "final" attack by Ringo, and in the end it's Ringo who was out of strength. You can say that it's because her road damages her as well, but that's a part of her power and can't be seen as some kind of handicap.

    Plus, the only reason that final attack even was able to land was because Ikki's regalia broke. He was about to unleash a super destructive attack that Ringo might not have even been able to stop. Instead, he took a direct hit from the Sonia Road Max and was still able to get back up and continue after a few repairs to his A-T.

    Basically, I'm comparing levels of strength. I'm not saying "Ringo couldn't have won the fight with Ikki if she had tried to kill him from the beginning," I'm pointing out that with the power given to him by the regalia, he was at least on equal footing with her. It's not a matter of winner or loser, it's a matter of comparing their strengths and debating who's stronger at their maximum powers, or at least that's what I'm going for.

    And going toe to toe doesn't really matter if they give you a handicap(referring to breaking his weights and letting him go instead of beating him when she had the chance the first time).
    Obviously Ikki was the weaker one in the beginning of the match, but fighting a Regalia user without a regalia is as much of a handicap as any of the things you mentioned. It's like taking on someone with a sword bare-handed. After his regalia came into play it's pretty safe to say Ringo wasn't able to just toss him around as easily as she did in the beginning.


  3. #53
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    I was talking about the very end of the fight (Flashback in chapter 142). Presumably they'd both continued for a bit after that "final" attack by Ringo, and in the end it's Ringo who was out of strength. You can say that it's because her road damages her as well, but that's a part of her power and can't be seen as some kind of handicap.

    Plus, the only reason that final attack even was able to land was because Ikki's regalia broke. He was about to unleash a super destructive attack that Ringo might not have even been able to stop. Instead, he took a direct hit from the Sonia Road Max and was still able to get back up and continue after a few repairs to his A-T.

    Basically, I'm comparing levels of strength. I'm not saying "Ringo couldn't have won the fight with Ikki if she had tried to kill him from the beginning," I'm pointing out that with the power given to him by the regalia, he was at least on equal footing with her. It's not a matter of winner or loser, it's a matter of comparing their strengths and debating who's stronger at their maximum powers, or at least that's what I'm going for.



    Obviously Ikki was the weaker one in the beginning of the match, but fighting a Regalia user without a regalia is as much of a handicap as any of the things you mentioned. It's like taking on someone with a sword bare-handed. After his regalia came into play it's pretty safe to say Ringo wasn't able to just toss him around as easily as she did in the beginning.
    Okay so just on brute strength? Obviously Ikki's attacks are stronger, Ringo even said her own attacks aren't that powerful but more affective for other purposes. It doesn't make any sense imo for you to judge the fight and the probability of him wining purely because he has more strength..

    And if its at their peak abilities, since when does power always win? Doesn't smarts, experience and strategy also play a huge role too? So then would you really think that Ringo is dumber than Ikki in terms of strategy? Both she and he demonstrated that they can see some kinda short cut thing with those graphs, if you can name one thing aside from brute strength that Ikki has over Ringo then I admit defeat. Ringo is smarter, faster, has more experience, and knows more about AT's than Ikki does.

    Also we don't know if that is her max capabilities, so far we don't know enough about Ringo to conclude whether that was he best, but if you want to judge it only by the fight then I guess so.

    If you can find ANY other things besides strength that he has then I'll stop, but if not then an explanation about how he would be able to defeat Ringo given it was a different fight with a real regalia would be nice. Since Ikki did not have any experience with a regalia, and frankly I don't think he even knows how to activate his even if he was given the real ones right now I'm going to assume a close call but no win.
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  4. #54
    clue2025 is offline Member Newbie
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    I just realized who the mystery man was...not sayin a damn thing. Freakin fan art, ruinin stuff
    Anime fan since the age of 4
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    Yes, I will take your anime. Who needs money?

    Currently designing AT's. For real. This is NO JOKE!

  5. #55
    xaturas is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Yeah I said that (about fancolored artwork) and also I said about kuu rants in 146.
    Back to ringo x ikki talk.
    Ringo is better in some circumistances (like closed room [Behemoths fight anyone] .
    Ikki in another way own on open spaces cause he can move on wind like nothing and he can use his suroundings as projectiles to shoot agains oponent. Its hard to dodge something when you are covered by wind arena and on each side there are projectiles waiting to shot trough you.
    Now about ikki runing a regalia. Bagram didnt change from original you know meaby some small diferences but woking up regalia is the same. You need to add high amount of pressured air to bagram core to activate it. Sora teached ikki how to use bagram.
    So as I said before if Ikki had real bagram as ringo have real sonia regalia. Ringo would been just a pieces of clothing because fight was in open space for almost all the time.
    And as someone said before, ringo was protecting the paper boy behind her not ikki.
    While not ikki? Because he wasnt in danger, first what could hurt him, second death god wouldnt kill his host when he can use that host to kill others ne?
    Lets wait for next chapters maybe we will get more info to discuss about ikki x ringo and who is more powerfull.

  6. #56
    Katana Soul is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Also we don't know if that is her max capabilities, so far we don't know enough about Ringo to conclude whether that was he best, but if you want to judge it only by the fight then I guess so.
    The move she used was called Sonia Road MAX. Distribution of power aside, I think that justifies saying that we've seen pretty close to what she's capable of, unless she powers up later.

    If you can find ANY other things besides strength that he has then I'll stop, but if not then an explanation about how he would be able to defeat Ringo given it was a different fight with a real regalia would be nice. Since Ikki did not have any experience with a regalia, and frankly I don't think he even knows how to activate his even if he was given the real ones right now I'm going to assume a close call but no win.
    Who says Ringo's faster? She blew Ikki away when he was without the Regalia, but when he did get the regalia she says "Back step...No, it's useless. He'll overtake me soon!" (Chapter 139 pg. 114). With the regalia activated, Ikki can control the wind and ride on it. That gives him a huge advantage, especially in the open sky.

    In addition to brute strength, Ikki also seems to have more stamina and endurance than Ringo. His body naturally absorbs damage so that it does minimal harm, and he's always been a fighter so he's all the more tough. Ringo's body is the exact opposite, a frail frame that in addition to being weaker already inflicts twice the damage on itself.

    They're about equal in strategy. Ikki can see and devise plans with his eagle eye ability, and Ringo's constant practice makes her equally suited to setting up routes on the fly. Only difference was in experience, where Ringo's moves were much more efficiently carried out than Ikki's.


  7. #57
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    The move she used was called Sonia Road MAX. Distribution of power aside, I think that justifies saying that we've seen pretty close to what she's capable of, unless she powers up later.
    This is one of those things that could easily be debatable, just like the way you said the words of the old man about the comment on if she used her move offensively because it could have just been the name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    Who says Ringo's faster? She blew Ikki away when he was without the Regalia, but when he did get the regalia she says "Back step...No, it's useless. He'll overtake me soon!" (Chapter 139 pg. 114). With the regalia activated, Ikki can control the wind and ride on it. That gives him a huge advantage, especially in the open sky.
    You left out one huge detail about what she said after.

    She was reading his moves strategically.

    Not faster? What about the fact that she outran a super charger with someone else's ATs, and caught up with Ikki's wind road and broke it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    In addition to brute strength, Ikki also seems to have more stamina and endurance than Ringo. His body naturally absorbs damage so that it does minimal harm, and he's always been a fighter so he's all the more tough. Ringo's body is the exact opposite, a frail frame that in addition to being weaker already inflicts twice the damage on itself.
    I'd disagree, just because she has a more fail frame does not mean that she did not have the endurance. To be able to take twice the damage and still fight definitely does not make her weak in endurance, stamina I'll give to you but definitely not endurance. If anything I would consider them both equal in terms of endurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    They're about equal in strategy. Ikki can see and devise plans with his eagle eye ability, and Ringo's constant practice makes her equally suited to setting up routes on the fly. Only difference was in experience, where Ringo's moves were much more efficiently carried out than Ikki's.
    Oh really? because I seem to remember her being able to use that same ability like I pointed out before.
    And in terms of strategy you would say they are equal? I think not, not only was she able to see through his strategies, she came up with ways to either over come them or at least defend herself enough to survive. I think that comes in handy a lot more than just simply going into a fight filled with rage and no plan at all. Not only that but throughout the whole battle Ringo was able to try to think things thoroughly and calmly the whole time. Experience and efficiency plays a great role in any battle, I don't think you can overlook that so easily.

    Lastly, it wasn't the fact that his ATs broke that his move was defeated, Ringo actually did beat it with the Sonia Road Max.


    After it was defeated he tried again with Death's influence but failed because the AT's broke and Ringo used what seemed to be her best move "Infinite Chain" Turquoise Sonia.

    Wow, because of this debate I actually went back home to get my external HD to look for these chapters since I couldn't find some online. xD
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  8. #58
    Katana Soul is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    This is one of those things that could easily be debatable, just like the way you said the words of the old man about the comment on if she used her move offensively because it could have just been the name.
    That's really pushing it. It was her most powerful attack, it was used in her most desperate moment, and it's called "Max." Maximum. 100%. I really don't see that being ambiguous at all, whereas the old man only posed a "what if?" question.

    She was reading his moves strategically.

    Not faster? What about the fact that she outran a super charger with someone else's ATs, and caught up with Ikki's wind road and broke it?
    The fact is, she seemed ready to take action but then realized that she wouldn't be able to get away without him catching her. When she saw this, she started analyzing why he was so fast. Plus, eye speed and insight =/= body speed. Just because she saw how he was manipulating the wind doesn't mean she could've found a way to go faster than him.

    Not faster? What about the fact that she outran a super charger with someone else's ATs, and caught up with Ikki's wind road and broke it?
    I doubt that'd be such a great feat for Ikki now. He was having trouble catching up, but at that point he couldn't even be compared to where he is now in all categories of strength.

    After it was defeated he tried again with Death's influence but failed because the AT's broke and Ringo used what seemed to be her best move "Infinite Chain" Turquoise Sonia.
    All I know is that he could've done a second attack which Ringo may or may not have withstood, but his A-T broke instead, leading to him taking a full, unguarded hit of Ringo's strongest move, and he could still fight afterwards and even was the last one able to move.

    And in terms of strategy you would say they are equal? I think not, not only was she able to see through his strategies, she came up with ways to either over come them or at least defend herself enough to survive. I think that comes in handy a lot more than just simply going into a fight filled with rage and no plan at all. Not only that but throughout the whole battle Ringo was able to try to think things thoroughly and calmly the whole time. Experience and efficiency plays a great role in any battle, I don't think you can overlook that so easily.
    Experience and such definitely played a big role, but at the end of the battle what it came down to was simply massive attacks filled with emotion. Ikki's was filled with rage, but Ringo's were equally filled with the need to express herself to him, something that definitely had nothing to do with rationality, or experience.


  9. #59
    MugenChamp is offline Senior Member Regular
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    well said katana soul. This to me didn't seem like a real battle simply because of the motives that Ringo had coming into it. She was trying to express her feelings and show ikki the power of SF. Ikki just wanted to win for the sake of his pride. I mean though they went all out, Ringo obviously was protecting Ikki from the devastating power of bagram. Since only Ikki was only concerned with truly crushing his opponent, Ringo, and Ringo was only concerned with protecting and showing Ikki her POV, you cannot say that one is stronger than the other. Even if Kurruru comes through with the rebuilt Bagram (which is looking pretty unlikely anytime soon because of the original being stolen by person X) who knows what power Ringo could unleash on Ikki when she concentrates and tries to utterly crush him.

  10. #60
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    That's really pushing it. It was her most powerful attack, it was used in her most desperate moment, and it's called "Max." Maximum. 100%. I really don't see that being ambiguous at all, whereas the old man only posed a "what if?" question.
    But it can be, just because it's called Sonia Road Max it doesn't mean she is trying her hardest or that is her full potential., It could be just like her saying Crazy Apple where it is just activating something, which would also be up to her to use the full potential of that or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    The fact is, she seemed ready to take action but then realized that she wouldn't be able to get away without him catching her. When she saw this, she started analyzing why he was so fast. Plus, eye speed and insight =/= body speed. Just because she saw how he was manipulating the wind doesn't mean she could've found a way to go faster than him.
    I was mainly talking about her being more strategic and smart than Ikki was. She was quick on her feet and actually did have enough time to properly defend herself. She wanted to end it by taking the hit but said something like she would be she still has some things that needed to be said while at the same time thinking she had to protect the guy on the bike. Not only was she able to see it Ikki's attack, she was also able to come up a way to defend that guy behind her even though it was not intentional.

    The other point I was trying to get across was the fact that she could catch up with him, while he WAS manipulating the air has to count for something, and the fact that the move could have simply been too big to avoid also plays a role.

    Plus, if he was at par with Ringo on intelligence and strategy, what was his strategy and how well did he execute them? The only thing he tried to do was activate his road, take a beating until he could find an opening, using his eagle's eye, and tie her legs so she couldn't ride her ATs...real good strategies. >_>

    And if you want to try and say he was clever enough to use the regalia on his first try I'm going to call bs cause he did not even know he was going to recieve the regalia from Kururu and it was only by luck that he was to pull off the moves. Sora may have taught him how to use them but he did not teach him anything else about it and it did not show him thinking about how to pull those moves off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    I doubt that'd be such a great feat for Ikki now. He was having trouble catching up, but at that point he couldn't even be compared to where he is now in all categories of strength.
    But you can't deny that if she has the power to break his road, it has to say something about him being able to manipulate the air around him and that it does not necessarily affect Ringo's speed. And you keep saying it is all about strength when it comes to a match but it isn't, just look at the Behemoth match. Plus wou;dn't you say that she'd have to be strong in order to use that road herself? Look at Rika, she was definitely no weakling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    All I know is that he could've done a second attack which Ringo may or may not have withstood, but his A-T broke instead, leading to him taking a full, unguarded hit of Ringo's strongest move, and he could still fight afterwards and even was the last one able to move.
    But then I can say, which I have been constantly saying, she was not trying to win just to win, she was trying to get her point across.


    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    Experience and such definitely played a big role, but at the end of the battle what it came down to was simply massive attacks filled with emotion. Ikki's was filled with rage, but Ringo's were equally filled with the need to express herself to him, something that definitely had nothing to do with rationality, or experience.
    And actually the match really came down to exactly what MugenChamp said in this comment, and what I've been saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by MugenChamp View Post
    well said katana soul. This to me didn't seem like a real battle simply because of the motives that Ringo had coming into it. She was trying to express her feelings and show ikki the power of SF. Ikki just wanted to win for the sake of his pride. I mean though they went all out, Ringo obviously was protecting Ikki from the devastating power of bagram. Since only Ikki was only concerned with truly crushing his opponent, Ringo, and Ringo was only concerned with protecting and showing Ikki her POV, you cannot say that one is stronger than the other. Even if Kurruru comes through with the rebuilt Bagram (which is looking pretty unlikely anytime soon because of the original being stolen by person X) who knows what power Ringo could unleash on Ikki when she concentrates and tries to utterly crush him.
    You go back and forth about how you base your argument on their full potentials but then I keep saying we don't know Ringo's full potential because we haven't had enough info about all her capabilities. Then it seems like you're insisting that Sonia Road Max means that she is using all her capabilities. Even with the things we do know, it still shows that she she is better than him in everything but strength, and stamina. I'm not going to say speed because I personally don't believe it, he's not even a speed type ATer. At least there is nothing that points to him being considered a speed type so far but more of a well rounded ATer.

    Strength alone did not allow Ikki to win this match, it was his decision not to care about the safety of others and Ringo not pouring her all into winning the battle but more about getting her point gettin across to Ikki.
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