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Thread: Chapter 132

  1. #71
    Kimo is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    i basically think Simca is the one trying to manipulate ikki as putting ringo and SF as the bad guys. I mean they look like the bad guys at the moment and from what weve heard about them, but maybe were jsut looking at it from a different point of view....lets all jsut sit back and watch or rather read what happens :P
    -KIMO

  2. #72
    BlueDemon is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    meh...the thing with they´re love is that both Simca and Ringo are in differernt situations
    but both love him(we can see that Simca doesn´t ONLY want to use him,she really loves him,as we see in the hospital)
    and it is pretty clear that Ringo loves him too(Devils jump or whatever)

    but because they are in different situations,they "express" they´re love different and @ the argument about how Ringo would react if she´d really love Ikki,that´s not quite right (i think everyone would fight for they´re loved one)

    and yeah,Ringo is not defenseless,i looked yesterday at some future chaps(without trans)^^

  3. #73
    Karsphen is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Wow i just love when posts start getting consistent like this. i didn't think that this chapter thread would have brought such a broad discussion...


    Quote Originally Posted by Artificity View Post
    All throughout the series it's been shown that her need for Ikki's attention has been the driving force behind Ringo's character and for anyone to say that she suddenly just changes has been ignoring the fact that, ever since the first trick, Ringo has been trying her best to be Ikki's confidante-turned-lover and all this goes askew over a girl who he knows nothing about.
    i realy can't agree more when you say that Ringo craves for Ikki's attention... We are talking here of attention not love... simply because someone else got into ikki's life (simca) and ruined her little love plans (those in which Ikki in a would be future would have noticed her "pure love" instead of that "fraternal/filial love" you talk about) she has no right whatsoever to ruin ikki's life/love choices.


    Heck, it took Ringo a total of 119 chapters to even do anything against Simca, who has done nothing but antagonize her from the day they met.
    Well... that is because up untill then Ringo always managed to get up to simca's level whenever she made something to get ikki's attention then right after that Ringo would do the same to get some points back.
    Up untill the moment when Ikki commited himself accepting simca's offer to be the leader of genesis (even if drunk and even if he said he would challenge genesis later on) Ringo still had a chance/hope that ikki would get on her same road (not sonia road but sleeping forest's road).

    After that she tried one last time putting her life on the line on the 33meter jump but that didn't change much of ikki's feelings (or at least he didn't show many signs of it for the moment)
    Seeing that her results where useless, apparently she started thinking "if i can't have you then nobody should..." and acted consequently.


    Does it make her the badguy for wanting to protect what she has over someone who wants to take it away from her?
    Well i'm sorry to say it depends... let's say for example that you are a boy (i dont know if you are f or m) and you have a girl which you are enloved with but she doesn't realize it...
    One day she find this playboy stud which is obviously going out with her just for some fun time rather than love...
    What are you going to do?

    take a gun and shoot him for being a stuck up pig with the girl you love the most?
    Sew him for going out with a girl just for sex rather than for love?
    Have him arrested for screwing with the girl you love the most?

    There are limits to what you can and can't do in the world humans live in (which usualy applies also to the manga's world unless it's some kind of manga where anarchy rules above all)
    Well of course this is just a manga so many things are different from reality, but basic things as i wrote above were usualy respected in most of the mangas i've read.


    Why do we never paint Simca as what she herself is; a person who's willing to do anything, use anyone to realize her goal of rising to Trophaeum. She herself admits this time and time again by stating that she's interested in Ikki because he has the ability to become Sky King. Not because he's Minami Itsuki.
    I've never said once that Simca is in love with Ikki and never stated once that she was the "good girl" painting her like a sinless saint...
    She is indeed a scheming girl which had in mind to get where sora couldn't get her (or keep her long enough... because it isn't very clear if sora actualy became the king of the gram scale when Simca was already his tuner)
    But even being a tit-flashing-scheming girl she actualy never tried to interfere with ikki's choice but rather putted him in certain situations (as the rez boa dogs chapters) to test him out and bring his potentials to the max.


    You can argue that she was controlling and seemed like she wanted to control Ikki's life. I will agree but she only does it because what little control she has over Ikki's life is slowly dying with the presence of Simca. She acts the way she does out of fear of losing him so easily.
    The problem isn't exactly that she tried to avoid loosing what little control was left on ikki's life... the problem is she was the first one to cross the "no turning back" line when she physicaly attacked Simca.
    At that moment everything she made from the beginning (which could have and mostly had been condoned) popped out back depicting her as a rotten character...

    Had Simca made something similar as crossing the "no turning back" line then it would have been the same, having all her little schemes (that had been condoned) pop out back depicting her as the rotten character instead of Ringo...


    And what wrong doing did Ringo make? She made it perfectly clear that when you are a team of storm riders, there's pride in your name and emblem. She's made it perfectly clear that people fight because and for their AT's. Why is it now so surprising or controversial for her to act on what she's already established from the early chapters? Heck, even Mikan asks Simca where they stand, proving that they could've been friends if only Ikki wasn't forced to choose between the two of their teams.
    She crossed the "no turning back line" by attacking simca and by remaining silent all the time without clearly telling that genesis was against sleeping forest...


    So now tell me... Why so much sympathy for Simca, someone who cares very little for Ikki in comparison to someone who has made him her entire universe?
    The sympathy comes to the one that hasn't crossed yet the line... had it been ringo or let's say for example that ume got seriously beated up just for being the sister of the sleeping forest leader then all the simpathys would have gone to sleeping forest and any action that would have followed would be condoned...
    So in this case if ikki goes out and put's on a wheelchair ringo or kilik not many people would argue back since it's payback for what they made in the past...


    The only redeeming thing that I can see Ikki do is take down both SF and Genesis, proving that he never favored one over the other. Otherwise, I can't forgive Simca for all this and can say that she deserves what she got, if not worse.
    I don't know if OG is going to show us the confrontation between Genesis and Kogarasumaru since most of it's best members are either out or planning to get out... (simca and spitfire)
    Personaly i think the redemption was already made because, even if it was just an idea and never had the chance to be realized, ikki's will to face genesis to show that he isn't just simca's puppet is enough for me atm... because he already showed he wasn't an idiot and he showed his true intentions of not being comandeered by anyone...

    Rika is only the mother in the sense that she brings the money home but her presence is very rarely felt in the entire household due to her schedule as a wrestler. Ikki hates Mikan's guts and Ume has her own little world, leaving Ringo the only person within the household that takes care of Ikki.

    And this only becomes more complicated with her feelings for him.

    Ringo started out as a surrogate sister but eventually wanted to become more than that, as shown in the Trident arc when she tries to flirt with Ikki to disastrous results.
    The fact that mikan acts like a grunt and ume is some kind of kid that lives in a distorted reality doesn't mean that ikki won't feel the same fraternal instincts towards them... after all brothers and sisters not always have perfect relacionships but in the end that doesn't affect their trued love usualy. So Ringo isn't the only one ikki considers as close caring family and it doesn't give her a special place in his heart... it's simply another way of behaving with you brother/sister...


    After this, she actually abandons the idea of ever becoming lovers with Ikki and seems to be perfectly happy UNTIL Ikki decides that the word of Kanon is more trustworthy than hers.
    What hurted most ikki wasn't the fact that kanon said she wanted to sabotage his AT because after all Kanon never said it was her idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanon
    Just before you came i was asking Ringo... If she wanted me to sabotage your AT.
    Do you know that your precious migratory bird was attacked by sleeping forest? Ringo is their leader... Altough she act as though nothing is going on... in actuality she is plotting behind your back...
    But the fact that she acted behind his back and acted as if nothing ever happened...



    That even though he ALWAYS knew that SF and Genesis were enemies, always knew that Ringo and Simca were on opposing sides of the fence, he would still act surprised at how things turned out.

    I hate Ikki so very much for this.
    It seems you missed a bit of the story... up untill then nobody actualy told Ikki that genesis opponent was Sleeping Forest... nor that simca had been attacked by sleeping forest...
    After all who else should have told him if not his childhood friend with whom he lived for the past 16 years... which "coincidently" is also the leader of the opposing faction...


    Not an honest feeling? I have no idea where this was ever pointed out. Volume 3 apparently shows that Ringo wanted Ikki as more than a brother/friend when she was talking to Simca in the bath. She said it crystal clear that they have different interests in Ikki with hers being heartfelt and Simca's being tactical. And the reason to the devil's thirty-thirty was that she needed to prove herself to him because Ikki's dumb as a rock when it comes to noticing these things and unlike Simca, she doesn't like flashing her boobs to get his attention.
    When simca and ringo are in the bathroom chap 23 from page 190 to page 197 she says that ikki needs to have assistance because he will be the next king and she blatantly asked if ringo would have stepped down and let her train the future sky king...
    Later on she says that ikki chose her instinctively because he recognized the best path and the only thing ringo says to her self is: i... i... definitely like ikki more

    As i said before about devil 30 that's the last card ringo played to tried to get ikki back...


    This wasn't a sudden decision from Ringo to be a bitch and take the competition out. She could've done it ages ago but didn't because she still believed that they weren't on the verge of clashing. Once they did, then the gloves have to come off and someone has to step down.

    Simca knew that Ringo liked Ikki. Simca knew that Ringo was SF's Crazy Apple. And I'm sure she most definitely knew that making enemies with the one of the strongest teams would eventually come back to haunt her.
    But that means that this confrontation should have been done of the field fairly and squarely as the AT rules state... not with a backstab...

    The difference between the Skull Saders and Sleeping Forest is that SF bombed Simca, a known AT user and leader of a powerful team. The Skull Saders cause mayhem towards people who have no idea what's going on simply because they feel like it.

    A soldier without a gun is still a soldier.

    There's a distinct difference in their actions.
    No, i'm sorry there is no distinction between skullsaders which attaked clueless civilians (in this case people that have nothing to do with AT) and SF which attacked an unarmed AT rider (simca without AT is as defensless as a clueless civilian)

    A soldier without a gun is not a soldier in front of another soldier with a gun... just as a F1 racer without car isn't a racer in front of someone with a car.
    Attacking someone without giving him the chance to defend is plain rotten... especialy if you consider that unlike war, AirTreck has precise rules and an honor code you must abide (for example you loose your emblem then you have to disband)


    God ^___^ this realy was a long one to write...
    Last edited by Karsphen; 02-23-2007 at 11:56 AM.
    All that we see or seems, is but a dream within within a dream.

  4. #74
    Katana Soul is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    No, i'm sorry there is no distinction between skullsaders which attaked clueless civilians (in this case people that have nothing to do with AT) and SF which attacked an unarmed AT rider (simca without AT is as defensless as a clueless civilian)
    I definitely don't have the willpower to respond to all of your arguments, but this one stuck out. I think you're sorely underestimating Simca in this matter. What, do you think she's some innocent little girl who doesn't know a thing about the AT world? Having been in a position of power for a good amount of time, she knows the ins and outs very well and would be blind not to see an attack coming from Sleeping Forest. In fact, she may have even anticipated that and purposely been unarmed to add fuel to Ikki's fire in confronting Sleeping Forest.

  5. #75
    Karsphen is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana Soul View Post
    I definitely don't have the willpower to respond to all of your arguments, but this one stuck out. I think you're sorely underestimating Simca in this matter. What, do you think she's some innocent little girl who doesn't know a thing about the AT world? Having been in a position of power for a good amount of time, she knows the ins and outs very well and would be blind not to see an attack coming from Sleeping Forest. In fact, she may have even anticipated that and purposely been unarmed to add fuel to Ikki's fire in confronting Sleeping Forest.
    No no... dont misunderstand me... i'm not saying simca is a defensless girl and much less an idiot...

    but at that time she was unarmed (meaning she had no AT to defend herself with), there weren't any contest (it was a plain ambush) and was against all sleeping forest (which means all 8 kings except gabishi who was imprisoned)
    After ikki told her what he realy though about her offer she realized that ikki had gone away from her grasp and realy was in no condition to make a plan, to consider she might be attacked and much less to take a fight after having her dreams crushed (dream of being the tuner of the new sky king).

    About the anticipation i seriously doubt that she wanted to end in a wheelchair especialy because in a wheelchair her chances of being the new tuner amounted to zero (whereas being able to move she could still hope for a sudden change of mind of ikki).
    All that we see or seems, is but a dream within within a dream.

  6. #76
    goku112 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    wait wait wait, we dont know if shes paralyzed, she could just be healing for the moment, all we know is she cant do AT. And to be a tuner you dont have to do AT at all. so her chances of being a tuner have not changed we just need to wait for more chapters.
    [SPOILER]
    Shame on you!
    [/SPOILER]

  7. #77
    Karsphen is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Indeed... you do have a good point...

    If Simca wont be forced for the rest of her life in a wheelchair but simply wont be able to do AT things change drammaticaly...

    And in the same way Ringo wouldn't appear as rotten as i depicted in my previous post.
    As i said before... it all depends if you cross the "no turning back" line or not... If you dont paralize someone but you just beat him so bad he can't do AT anymore it's very different from precluding him any chance of a normal future life...
    All that we see or seems, is but a dream within within a dream.

  8. #78
    Katana Soul is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    If you dont paralize someone but you just beat him so bad he can't do AT anymore it's very different from precluding him any chance of a normal future life...
    Those two sound awfully similar...I mean, how else would you stop someone from ever doing AT again without injuring them permanently some other way?

  9. #79
    Karsphen is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    hmmm maybe i didn't express myself with the correct terms...

    Let's take for instance a football player... their legs are their treasure... so when someone makes a foul on them obviously the arbitre will sanction it with a red card.
    Although the players know that during confrontation with other players muscle rupture or other things might happen... and even knowing this risk still play...

    If that happens, in some cases they won't be able to play football anymore...but that doesn't preclude the chance of living a normal life with a wife, kids, and many other things that usualy handicaped (paralized in this case) people can't enjoy (or at least it's quite a minority if we compare the statistics of handicaped people who manage to live a normal life and those who don't)


    So simca indeed might have lost her ability to fly with AT (maybe because it puts too much strain on her body) but she could still live a normal life just like a football player could...

    that does make a big difference...


    PS: obviously i'm not changing the thoughts i previously expressed. (if paralized ringo= rotten if not then the whole thing changes...) as i said before it's all about crossing the "no turning back" line
    All that we see or seems, is but a dream within within a dream.

  10. #80
    goku112 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Sora has an AT powered wheel chair, even then you could still do AT lol, the only thing that is in jeopardy is her use of AT, if she does end up paralyzed she could always get that type of wheelchair. but like i said we need more chapters, and i maintain that her tuning abilities might not be damaged
    [SPOILER]
    Shame on you!
    [/SPOILER]

 

 
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